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Old 02-17-2009, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Missouri
661 posts, read 1,036,630 times
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'But remember the scripture, absent from the body present with the Lord. So, God has all those who have died with him. And with God there is peace. It is written "He shall wipe away all their tears". Wont that be great when all our tears are finally wiped away and we can spend eternity with Him.'

Funny how nobody goes to hell when they have been involved in a tragedy like this. Wont the JWs at least be in hell?
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,150,725 times
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Question "Hello? Hello? Anyone out there?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Ever heard of Christian Childrens fund, or any of the hundreds of Religious organizations that feed, provide medical, homes, water, etc.... I think doing both is very important.

_________________________________

Too true, freedom. Especially the on-air spokesman, being obviously VERY well fed and all. Wonder which LearJet model they use to fly over to do the video taping of their plea-ads?

That which would help these people more than any other single thing would be to not only teach birth control but to enforce it. It's an amazing little biological and behavioral fact, well documented in bioscience, that the human species is alone on this planet in not responding to nutritional stresses by immediately withdrawing from reproductive behaviour. Giraffes, lions, polar bears, chimps, etal; all recoil from "the act" when they are faced with famine.

But not us, oh nooooooo. If we can crawl together, we wil frick and produce more little welped out drains on our's and the world's llimited resources. And even more bizarrely, the more ill-educated, the more diseased and poverty-striken, the higher the reproductive rate.

Of course when The Church supports them, they also take the golden opp to proselytize to the young and impressionable minds as they stroke their little heads and offer them up a meal.

____________________________________


freedom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
or frivolous wars...or toxins from pesticides and air pollution...

If you're going to be pro-life, be pro-life.
Again, there is a much larger agenda here that seeks to maintain and succor new acolytes. Food to the starving, comfort to the diseased, shelter for the impoverished. And a free bible.

Question that needs answering:
could or would these organizations do this if they were restrained from proselytizing? If it had to be benignly secular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
Yeah - the new age folks tapped into something true and then turned it into something almost as off kilter as regular religion.

I say we just focus on the Energy and we'll get everything we need.
At least it has some semblance of intellectual honesty, BlueFly, and it doesn't invoke internecine or inter-religious warfare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
I'm not in agreement with any of the things you listed.

We farm organically (what percentage globally? for productivity or for show?)

Make biodiesel (Ditto. Biodiesel sticks in the craw of Big Oil, as does Ethanol. (remember; I retired a couple years ago from GM... I know what they think for sure...) If or when it becomes a significant factor in global fuel economics it will be bought out by Exxon, et al. Prices & excise taxes will rise accordingly. Control will pass hands.)

And don't tell Uncle but i never even registered for the selective service, let alone fought in a frivolous war.

This may excuse you as far as cretinous global adventurism "in the name of God" (see: "W" Bush and Iraq/Iran), but is of course a simple deflection from the larger case of organized religion and Christianity's absurd focus solely on abortion, all the while gleefully condoning the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the Salem Witch Burnings, suppression of stem cell research, and endless blathering of anti-science mantras which has, of course, led directly to the deaths of may whom unfettered science would have otherwise potentially saved.

"If it creates just one new acolyte...."
etc. Again..."sigh".


godspeed,

freedom
__________________________________

Where was God when the planes crashed? Nowhere to be found. Same place he is when a devout Christian congregation prays for help with a particularly devout member accidentally becomes an amputee or loses an eye. Probably concentrating his not-so-infinite intellect on some sub-atomic particle's errant spin on a nameless meteorite-particle on the far other side of the four billionth Universe wayyyy out there. Gosh it's hard, controlling all things all the time, everywhere, for ever and ever....

The ONLY examples where God's glorious mercies are happily touted are always where the results clearly have alternate medical explanations but where those are wholly discounted. As in the "miraculous" defeat of a cancer, or where dear Aunt Sally "miraculously" survives her head-on collision injuries, but her family prayed round the clock, and "by God", she "miraculously" pulled through. She was truly "blessed".

Of course, the other driver, a Catholic priest, didn't fare so well and succumbed, but that's life, eh? "God works in mysterious..." blah blah.

Delusional? Nahhhhh.....
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:19 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,952,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringwielder View Post
'But remember the scripture, absent from the body present with the Lord. So, God has all those who have died with him. And with God there is peace. It is written "He shall wipe away all their tears". Wont that be great when all our tears are finally wiped away and we can spend eternity with Him.'

Funny how nobody goes to hell when they have been involved in a tragedy like this. Wont the JWs at least be in hell?


Hate to say it...but yah...they probably are in hell. Assuming they believed what the watchtower organization teaches.
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 14,033,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
This was his plan. He controls everything. He wanted that plane to crash for some reason. That's just a fact.
While I don't agree He wanted it to happen, I agree He is in control of everything, and He allowed it to happen. And knew it was going to happen before it did.[/quote]


This surely must a heart warming consolation to those who died and their families.

Last edited by Visvaldis; 02-17-2009 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,468 posts, read 29,737,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Funny how people seem to focus on only one sentence of my post.

Anyway...would you rather have a God that is not in control and just hopes for the best like you and me? Or one that knows what's going to happen, and is sovereign over it? Isn't "allowing it" the same as being sovereign over it? He very well could have stopped it. But he didn't. That means he wanted it to happen for some reason.

I'm not suggesting that he's some sort of a genie up in heaven shooting lightning bolts and cackling at people who suffer...but he is in control of everything--and for some reason he wanted it to happen. Life isn't always fair according to how we see it.
Evil is not His will, but we have a choice and if we choose evil, He is going to respect that choice. Yes He is in control of everything, but somethings happen because He allows it, not because it's what He wants.
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:21 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,468 posts, read 29,737,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post

This surely must a heart warming consolation to those who died and their families.
If they know God, yes it is.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,150,725 times
Reputation: 3720
Wink Pray! Pray Hard!

Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Yes He is in control of everything, but somethings happen because He allows it, not because it's what He wants.
Well now, I'd have to say that if He's in control, and He allows or disallows, He'll do whatever He wants. Outcome #1 versus Outcome #2? If He wants what's behind Door No. 1, that's what will happen.

Hence a planeload of devoutly Christian virginal nuns en-route to a Church seminar hits an errant thunderstorm that He specifically pushed into their pathway because why? So they can pray their way through it and confirm that Jesus is in their lives? Reasonable possibility.

But then the No. 2 engine's ignition module fails because it hadn't been properly serviced at the hanger. Because?

And so the now-one-engined plane becomes uncontrollable in the violently dodgy crosswind conditions and plummets straight to hell in a hurry, why again?

Well, 'cause He wanted it, He allowed it, and since all is Godly goodness, He smiled through it all, as the resultant ground fireball consumed their screaming thrashing hides.....

Otherwise, if it had the potential to upset him, He'd have "disallowed" it and the nuns would have sailed through unscathed. Sadly, apparently he's not always such a nice guy after all.

Hard to fathom, but then, He works in mysterious ways, right?

And in other news.....

http://www.indcatholicnews.com/nuncold329.html (broken link)

Brief summary of opening paragraphs:

March 2007: Four Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate Heart of Mary died on Friday when their car collided with a truck near Tiruchirappalli, a city in Tamil Nadu, 2,400 kilometres south of New Delhi.


Sisters Alphonse Fathima, 54, Amali Shantha, 54, Chriysologa Mary, 65, and Fideline Mary, 67, were on their way to Tiruchirappalli... to attend (a) funeral. The driver dozed off while driving in the early morning and lost control of the car, which collided with a truck coming from the opposite direction. The nuns and the driver died on the spot.


"We are deeply shocked," Sister Celine Mary, one of the provincial superiors of the congregation, told UCA News. She added that the congregation lost some senior leaders in the tragedy.



"We have accepted this loss as the will of God during the Lenten season" Sister Celine added.


That's nice......

Last edited by rifleman; 02-17-2009 at 05:42 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:31 PM
 
124 posts, read 290,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
God doesn't need to toast anyone, we do that for ourselves just fine.

The point is, if you ask, you will receive... to you who can believe.

If there were no believers on board, why would God interfere with their freedom?

godspeed,

freedom
Do you understand anything about statistics? Eighty-five percent of this country have some belief in a god, so the odds that the entire plane was full of atheists is pretty remote.

So you receive everything you ask god for?

I doubt you get anywhere near half. Do this, I live in Greenville, SC, ask him to make it snow here 3 feet in any 24 hour period in the next 14 days.


BTW, still waiting for the bear answer.
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:49 PM
 
124 posts, read 290,554 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
God was where he has always been when that plane crashed. He is sovereign and in control.

Funny...but you don't usually see people whining when God does good things for bad people.
I just see theist giving an imaginary sky god credit for everything goof.
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:54 PM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,172 posts, read 15,132,961 times
Reputation: 64021
Quote:
Originally Posted by jroyals View Post
Do you understand anything about statistics? Eighty-five percent of this country have some belief in a god, so the odds that the entire plane was full of atheists is pretty remote.

So you receive everything you ask god for?

I doubt you get anywhere near half. Do this, I live in Greenville, SC, ask him to make it snow here 3 feet in any 24 hour period in the next 14 days.


BTW, still waiting for the bear answer.
Better yet, visit an amputee at your local VA Hospital. Sit and pray that he regrows the leg he lost during the war.
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