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Old 02-13-2009, 11:49 PM
 
140 posts, read 177,949 times
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When theists and atheists talk about "faith", they are not on the same page.

i) to theists, faith in scriptures (Bible, Koran, ... ) means "no question asked", 100% believing in it. They may look up the scriptures from time to time to question the exact meanings of items, but that's a different type of questioning. They certainly do not question the validity of any thing in the scriptures; everything in the scriptures are taken as "God breathed truth".

ii) atheists do not recognize the religious type faith mentioned in above. To them, all faiths must be supported by facts and evidences, and they will loose faith in any thing if evidences do not support it.

Many theists have both type i) and type ii) faiths. Atheists only have type ii) faith.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:57 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 12,753,359 times
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Actually I am an atheist, devoutly atheist, and I have great faith that the complete spectrum of dieties from past to present, who knows exactly how many that would add up to, are mythological, because I see no reason to assume they are real. I also believe that churches exist to separate people from their money, I don't understand why anyone would tithe, just give away ten percent of their income to be bored semi-senceless by bad philosophy on a weekly basis.
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:04 AM
 
105 posts, read 212,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW123 View Post
When theists and Idiots talk about "faith", they are not on the same page.

i) to theists, faith in scriptures (Bible, Koran, ... ) means "no question asked", 100% believing in it. They may look up the scriptures from time to time to question the exact meanings of items, but that's a different type of questioning. They certainly do not question the validity of any thing in the scriptures; everything in the scriptures are taken as "God breathed truth".

ii) idiots do not recognize the religious type faith mentioned in above. To them, all faiths must be supported by facts and evidences, and they will loose faith in any thing if evidences do not support it.

Many theists have both type i) and type ii) faiths. Idiots only have type ii) faith.
Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Thanks for sharing your brilliant discovery.
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:09 AM
 
140 posts, read 177,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacknblue View Post
Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Thanks for sharing your brilliant discovery.
Well, am I right about it or what?

You probably label yourself as a theist but you doubt a lot of religious stuffs, then you are not qualified as a theist.
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:15 AM
 
2,633 posts, read 4,462,818 times
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I thought the definition of faith was to believe in something regardless of the evidence supporting it? How can you have faith in something that is backed up by facts and evidence?
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:23 AM
 
140 posts, read 177,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
I thought the definition of faith was to believe in something regardless of the evidence supporting it? How can you have faith in something that is backed up by facts and evidence?
No, that will be wrong.

Faith is important to any success. If you just start a research project, everything is still promising. You should give it a world, and not giving up on it. But, after years of working on it, contra-evidences showed up, then you should have no problem accepting the new evidences. This is called "faith".

(I am not sure I explained it -- in simple words, faith means "determination to get to the bottom of it", not just accepting it)
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:37 AM
 
2,633 posts, read 4,462,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW123 View Post
(I am not sure I explained it -- in simple words, faith means "determination to get to the bottom of it", not just accepting it)
Exactly, if you have faith in something you wont accept any evidence that contradicts it. Faith is a belief that doesn't rest on logic or evidence.
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Old 02-14-2009, 01:10 AM
 
105 posts, read 212,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW123 View Post
Well, am I right about it or what?

You probably label yourself as a theist but you doubt a lot of religious stuffs, then you are not qualified as a theist.
You're absolutely wrong and I'll tell you why: You make absolute statements,
use illogical either/or reasoning, and make sweeping generalizations without
supporting you're arguments with any factual information or supporting texts.
In other words, you present your opinion as fact, another logical fallacy.

I don't label myself and I don't accept labels given to me.
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:02 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 1,999,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
Exactly, if you have faith in something you wont accept any evidence that contradicts it. Faith is a belief that doesn't rest on logic or evidence.
allow me to share my insight about this matter
i think that there is a big difference between belief and faith
belief : is the side of religion which we need to support it with evidences and logic , it's the basics of relegions . the beliefs is the one which is acceptable to discuss and argue about with other religions

faith : but faith is something which one of us gained it in his heart by practising his beliefs and trusting in it , it's the side of religion where it dosn't rest on evidence as for example the paradise and the hell and the judgement day and future prophecies ... etc

so the religion consist of two parts : 1- beliefs 2- faith


briefly , the faith is depend on beliefs , and beliefs need evidences and logic

btw , i had this insight from one verse from quran , where allah said to new converted muslims
14 - The desert Arabs say, We believe. Say (O'Mohammed to them), ye have no faith; but ye (only) say, We have submitted our wills to God, for not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey God and His Apostle, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for God is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.
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Old 02-14-2009, 03:22 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,811,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW123 View Post
When theists and atheists talk about "faith", they are not on the same page.

i) to theists, faith in scriptures (Bible, Koran, ... ) means "no question asked", 100% believing in it. They may look up the scriptures from time to time to question the exact meanings of items, but that's a different type of questioning. They certainly do not question the validity of any thing in the scriptures; everything in the scriptures are taken as "God breathed truth".
Hmmmmmmm You mean like according to the religious leaders of all those HellFire & Damnation faiths, God is supposed to be holding a gun to their heads or else ???

Okay I buy that.

Don't you hate all that blind faith ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW123
ii) atheists do not recognize the religious type faith mentioned in above. To them, all faiths must be supported by facts and evidences, and they will loose faith in any thing if evidences do not support it.
Wait a minute, I have faith based on fact. Here's a fact everyone here can verify and have faith and believe in. Every time some one of these so-called Christian "believers" (as the phraze has been coined) opens a thread on this very forum, with some/any type of religious concept for discussion or review, I have faith that your team will come in here and trash talk and tear down whatever dogma is presented, then offer nothing of value to the concept you've all just helped destroy. Then we are left with nothing more than a virtual social/spiritual nuclear winter or black hole with no hope of life again. You've never once disappointed me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW123
Many theists have both type i) and type ii) faiths. Atheists only have type ii) faith.
Nope I totally disagree with this here. Your secularist "Chairman Mao" also held a gun to your citizen Athiest believers heads and told them to believe or else, just like the good ol' "HellBoys" !!!

Your version of Faith and TRUTH has always made me feel warm and fuzzy all over !!!


Last edited by bluepacific; 02-14-2009 at 04:16 AM.. Reason: typo
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