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Old 02-17-2009, 01:12 PM
 
11,145 posts, read 13,589,779 times
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I've read through this entire thread and, have to say, I haven't found any of the arugments defending the Bible to hold up as any more than conjecture and hope.

People say "you need the Holy Spirit to understand", but how can one take this interpretation of the Holy Spirit into her heart if she can't first understand what she is adopting? Makes no sense.

Perhaps God's wisdom isn't in any book. Perhaps it's within all of us. That scares people who believe they have found the only true path through a specific book and messiah, but that's where I found it. That's where cultures throughout history rooted in oral tradition have found it.

Perhaps Christ was simply teaching people through words and demonstrations how to becomes "gods" for themselves. Perhaps that threatened those who sought to control the masses, so they created this character who demanded servitude and worship and chastised any who sought God without the middle-man getting his cut of the pie.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Well I have to say that some of these last few posts are some of the most outstanding examples of Christian waffling I have ever seen....By the way I thought the seventh commandment was "Thou shalt not kill", but even if the word murder is substituted it is just semantics....Amazing how some Christians attempt to justify the actions of such a murderous, jealous and vicious god.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Well I have to say that some of these last few posts are some of the most outstanding examples of Christian waffling I have ever seen....By the way I thought the seventh commandment was "Thou shalt not kill", but even if the word murder is substituted it is just semantics....Amazing how some Christians attempt to justify the actions of such a murderous, jealous and vicious god.
I guess genocide is alright as long as they're the ones doing it.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,047 posts, read 30,818,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
If you are speaking of the Scripture I am thinking of, it states snakes will eat (dust) all of their life. Well, that would be a true statement. Consider link below.

Serpents and dust; Christians and salt
Snakes do east dust! - Creation Magazine
This would be funny, if it wasn't so sadly ignorant...What nutrients do you think that poor old biblical talking snake derived from dust?...I guess modern snakes are off the hook, as I have never seen any gobbling dust.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:59 PM
 
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It's sad that I was raised in a religious school that never once in my upbringing pointed out that the "snakes" Saint Patrick drove from Ireland was a euphemism for Pagans.

Still wrong to drive any people out of their home, imo, but for grown adults to perpetuate this myth that it was literally snakes driven out is absurd and dishonest. Either they were liars or simply ignorant.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,490 posts, read 1,283,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
Campbell, if one perceives your book as being in error, then you going to have to come up with another means to defend it. You can say the bible contains no errors, that's your choice, but it doesn't make it absolute. To say that the bible is the absolute truth because the bible says so, is like saying that the Origin of Species by Darwin is correct because it says so, who knows maybe Darwin was inspired by God to write it.
I agree totally. In school I was taught that when giving out the definition of a spelling word you can't use the exact word in it's definition. Same things applies here. How can you use the bible to prove the validity of the bible ? It defies logic really. You can quote it all you want...but it's a catch 22 and will never result in a definative answer.

Last edited by jasper1372; 02-17-2009 at 06:37 PM..
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
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Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
The bible does not contradict itself. When someone does not understand what they are reading, they say that the bible is contradicting itself.

If you don't have the Holy Spirit how can you understand spiritual things, you can't and you want.

The bible says that know man has seen Gods Face, but the bible says that Abraham and others saw God face to face. So, how is that when the bible says that know one has seen God. Jesus said that no man has seen the Father but Him. So, who were they seeing? WAs it not Jesus, He is God. If people don't understand that Jesus is also God, then it is evident that they were seeing God in a form, but not the Father, but Jesus was always there. If people don't understand things like that then they will say that the bible is contradicting themselves. If you don't understand spiritual things then you want be able to comprehend them.

Jesus said that to see Him, was to see the Father. So, Jesus was in the Old Testament also, because He is God. So, it is not that the bible is contradicting itself, you just have to understand the language.
If the bible was written in some type of code so non-believers can't really understand it that would seem to be the strangest and most non-productive way I can imagine to help people find their way in the christian faith.

Would an author write an entry level 3rd grade math book using college calculus ? Of course not, you'd make it as understandable as the normal 3rd grader would be.

Why would god want to play "hard to get" with unbelievers by making the bible way to hard to understand unless you had already accepted all the beliefs the bible espouses ?
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:35 PM
 
11,145 posts, read 13,589,779 times
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^
Because when one can't adequately answer reasonable critiques (such as why the Bible supports slavery, genocide, beating women), you pretend the passages are coded and hidden from doubters.

Then one can protect her worldview without having to face the fact that she may, in fact, be mistaken. That's really hard for a lot of people - especially when there isn't anything there to fill the void of what they have believed to be irrefutable truth for many years.

Have sympathy on those who rely on scriptures of any kind for any faith. If you look at the consistent grammatical errors in many of the posts defending the Bible, it's clear that such individuals have not had an education that developed their capacity for critical thought or exposed them to views beyond those with which they were raised or adopted in a time of crisis.

It's a long but very worthwhile road from holding God in a book to holding God in one's heart.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,490 posts, read 1,283,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
The bible does not contradict itself. When someone does not understand what they are reading, they say that the bible is contradicting itself.

If you don't have the Holy Spirit how can you understand spiritual things, you can't and you want.

The bible says that know man has seen Gods Face, but the bible says that Abraham and others saw God face to face. So, how is that when the bible says that know one has seen God. Jesus said that no man has seen the Father but Him. So, who were they seeing? WAs it not Jesus, He is God. If people don't understand that Jesus is also God, then it is evident that they were seeing God in a form, but not the Father, but Jesus was always there. If people don't understand things like that then they will say that the bible is contradicting themselves. If you don't understand spiritual things then you want be able to comprehend them.

Jesus said that to see Him, was to see the Father. So, Jesus was in the Old Testament also, because He is God. So, it is not that the bible is contradicting itself, you just have to understand the language.

I'm sorry, but you lost me here. I'm really trying hard not to chuckle here since your attempt at defending the bible saying two different things in two different places reminds me of the song I've heard on the radio a few times entitled " I'm my own grandpa". The whole song is a complete story of how this kid somehow became his own grandpa.

If you have to use such complicated logic to make sure the bible remains the literal truth in your mind.....so be it, but to me it seems a reach at best.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,455,547 times
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kdbrich wrote:
Quote:
Do you believe that we should have an armed police force?
Only if you really get out of hand! Just kidding.
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