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Old 02-17-2009, 01:01 AM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 964,176 times
Reputation: 142

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A side note of caution:

Just about every thread about this topic on this site gets this:



Bchris is seeking some advice and support so I guess it makes sense to continue to speak to his concerns while conversely.

Last edited by Alpha8207; 02-17-2009 at 05:24 PM.. Reason: removed personal remarks

 
Old 02-17-2009, 07:35 AM
 
681 posts, read 2,509,537 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
You sound like a nice person and I'm sure you mean well, but I'm sorry, thinking gay men should find a "manly" woman or lesbians should find a "girly" man.... It kinda makes me giggle.

I guess you musn't realise how many very "feminine" women are lesbians or how many very "masculine" men are gay, and how often feminine women end up with other feminine women and masculine men often end up with other masculine men. Gender identity is also not the same thing as sexual orientation. The stereotypes are only stereotypes because they are the "obvious" ones.
Then giggle... it'll help you live longer. I know that there are many people of each gender who are unquestionably members of that gender due to their actions. My suggestion was only that- a suggestion. It could work for some people... not for all people.

Homosexual orientation is a choice. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. God created humans the way He wanted them to be created and He set the rules... and one of the rules was that heterosexual love relationships / marriages are okay and homosexual love relationships / marriages are not. It's kind of like... if YOU created something, such as a robot, wouldn't you program it to do something you needed or wanted it to do? If it failed at that task, wouldn't you try to fix it? I dig that humans are more than robots, but we aren't the kind of creator that God is. Humans were put on this earth with individual purposes and universal parameters... we're expected to stay within those parameters and ultimately fulfill our purposes.

Bad stuff wouldn't be so attractive if it didn't LOOK good. Lots of people these days help bad stuff look good by telling others that it's okay to do it. Come on, we learn about this crap in elementary school... when we first hear about avoidance of peer pressure (usually related to smoking). We're taught to "just say no" to things like cigarettes and drugs, but then look at how many people wind up smoking and doing drugs anyway. That's because the "just say no" education withers away once we believe kids are old enough to say no on their own... and its replacement is "you know you want to say yes" coming from peers (and often adults).

Last edited by NWPAguy; 02-17-2009 at 07:50 AM..
 
Old 02-17-2009, 07:40 AM
 
681 posts, read 2,509,537 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
People don't worry. I posted this in the religion forum but not the Christianity forum because I wanted opinions from evangelical Christians, liberal Christians, and non-believers alike. I've heard everything and I will say there is a lot of hate that comes from the right wing but so far, most things said here have been respectful.
Chris, as a "right winger" myself, I can assure you that any "right winger" worth the ground upon which he walks hates ACTIONS and not PEOPLE. It's even in the Bible that we are to hate what is wrong and embrace what is right... but we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. Anyone who doesn't do that is giving Christianity a bad name.

Think about this for a minute. It's perfectly logical. Which of the following two people is a better soldier for Satan- someone who walks around wearing creepy makeup and black clothing, singing death metal songs, and smelling of cigarettes..... or..... someone who professes to be a Christian and then goes around doing things such as hating people? The answer is simple... it's the "Christian". Nobody is going to pay much attention to the Gothic dude (at least to the extent of thinking that he gives Christianity a bad name)... but when someone does bad things in the name of Christianity, they tend to give Christianity a bad name and make people think "If that's Christianity, I want no part of it".
 
Old 02-17-2009, 07:45 AM
 
681 posts, read 2,509,537 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
I know you asked for Christians and i'm Jewish so let me have a little word.The old testament,new testament,koran,etc... are guidelines and not absolute.
Then you aren't an especially strong Jew. I grew up in an area where there were lots of Jewish people and although they weren't of the Hasidic order, they were hardcore. To them, the Torah wasn't a book of guidelines... it was a book of laws. To Christians, the Bible isn't a book of guidelines... it's a book of laws.

Too many people have tried to weaken the Bible by saying that it is a book of guidelines and not a book of laws.... in the same way that we've systematically weakened the Constitution by saying that it is a guideline and not a document of absolute laws.

When you have no absolutes, chaos ensues and that is a fact. Chris, don't listen to anyone who tells you anything other than "the Bible is the HOLY WORD OF GOD and it is INCONTROVERTIBLE and ABSOLUTE".
 
Old 02-17-2009, 07:51 AM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 964,176 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
Then you aren't an especially strong Jew. I grew up in an area where there were lots of Jewish people and although they weren't of the Hasidic order, they were hardcore. To them, the Torah wasn't a book of guidelines... it was a book of laws. To Christians, the Bible isn't a book of guidelines... it's a book of laws.

Too many people have tried to weaken the Bible by saying that it is a book of guidelines and not a book of laws.... in the same way that we've systematically weakened the Constitution by saying that it is a guideline and not a document of absolute laws.

When you have no absolutes, chaos ensues and that is a fact. Chris, don't listen to anyone who tells you anything other than "the Bible is the HOLY WORD OF MY GOD and it is INCONTROVERTIBLE and ABSOLUTE" in MY opinion.
Decided to fix that for you. Send check to...
 
Old 02-17-2009, 08:27 AM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,172 posts, read 15,066,636 times
Reputation: 64016
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
A single case doesn't affect me. A movement to normalize it and say it is not sin affects societies sense of morality, decency, and has allowed the promotion of the life in our schools and media. I don't really care for the celebration of disobedience that is displayed in many circles of the gay community.


I have One wife, it's not a supply issue with me, nor a competition for females attention.



Not relevant to me personally regarding proselytizing door to door, or being of the JW organization.
As to the promotion of Gays, there is hardly a movie, or tv show, or magazine, etc... that doesn't have the agenda to make it okay.

godspeed,

freedom
It seems to me you think you're the only one who should be able to preach your belief as fact. Just because you read something in a book/Bible doesn't give you license to broadcast it as fact.

I don't know why gays weigh so heavily when you have Christian teenage mothers in your own community whose offspring are the result of practicing abstinence. Christians need to tend to their own backyard when addressing the ills of fornication. Another irony here, is the high Christian adultery rate leading to the high Christian divorce rate, yet they are against gay marriage. Two people in love want to marry each other and as a Christian, you are in no position to throw stones.
 
Old 02-17-2009, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,664,784 times
Reputation: 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
Then giggle... it'll help you live longer. I know that there are many people of each gender who are unquestionably members of that gender due to their actions. My suggestion was only that- a suggestion. It could work for some people... not for all people.

Homosexual orientation is a choice. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. God created humans the way He wanted them to be created and He set the rules... and one of the rules was that heterosexual love relationships / marriages are okay and homosexual love relationships / marriages are not. It's kind of like... if YOU created something, such as a robot, wouldn't you program it to do something you needed or wanted it to do? If it failed at that task, wouldn't you try to fix it? I dig that humans are more than robots, but we aren't the kind of creator that God is. Humans were put on this earth with individual purposes and universal parameters... we're expected to stay within those parameters and ultimately fulfill our purposes.

Bad stuff wouldn't be so attractive if it didn't LOOK good. Lots of people these days help bad stuff look good by telling others that it's okay to do it. Come on, we learn about this crap in elementary school... when we first hear about avoidance of peer pressure (usually related to smoking). We're taught to "just say no" to things like cigarettes and drugs, but then look at how many people wind up smoking and doing drugs anyway. That's because the "just say no" education withers away once we believe kids are old enough to say no on their own... and its replacement is "you know you want to say yes" coming from peers (and often adults).
I just have to say a few things. While I understand where you are coming from from a Christian perspective, if you have never had homosexual desires it's more difficult to have a full understanding of homosexuality. Let's look at it this way. Most straight men are able to distinguish between handsome men and ugly men. Just because you aren't sexually attracted to them doesn't take from the fact many men are very good looking. Some straight men subconsciously take this a step further. Ever wonder why handsome guys have handsome friends and ugly guys have ugly friends? I view women in the same way. Just because I am attracted to men doesn't mean I don't appreciate the beauty of the opposite sex. Likewise it would take a miracle of God to change my sexual orientation. What I don't think people who say these feelings are a choice understand is that a homosexual orientation is not about butt sex. In fact, there are some homosexuals who aren't into sex period. It's a frame of mind, a complete emotional, mental, and spiritual attraction to the same sex. It's the desire to love a man on an intimate level, just as straight men love women. I didn't choose this.
 
Old 02-17-2009, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,481,397 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
I do agree in one part that certain televisions shows push it a little too much on the viewer like when Ellen came out and then every episode of her show was about her sexuality. Now if you really want to talk about a sin or blasphemy think about this...Every year there is a holiday called Christmas which is supposed to be based on the birth of Christ,correct? If that is the case shouldn't everyone who celebrates it the way it is commonly done so ;with a tree,stockings,and honoring of St.Nick be considered sinners?Is St.Nick a false profit or is this just a slap in the face to Jesus? We are supposed thy neighbor so whether they are black,white, gay,straight,or whatever religion it shouldn't make a difference. Also about sin----we are all sinners, so who are we to judge others when we are mere mortals.
Start a thread on it, i'd love to delve deeper into the traditions of men.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 02-17-2009, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,481,397 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Okay . . . not okay . . . Colossians 2:19,

. . . If you have died with Christ to the elements of the world, why, as if still living in the world, do you lay down the rules . . . Things that must all perish in their very use? In this you follow the 'precepts and doctrines of men.

[b]Do you save anyone by removing their choices by coercion?Just asking.
I don't save anyone.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 02-17-2009, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,664,784 times
Reputation: 4458
Please stop the arguing and condescending remarks. I don't want this thread to be locked.
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