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Old 02-17-2009, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,465 posts, read 21,217,203 times
Reputation: 17686

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
What I don't think people who say these feelings are a choice understand is that a homosexual orientation is not about butt sex. In fact, there are some homosexuals who aren't into sex period. It's a frame of mind, a complete emotional, mental, and spiritual attraction to the same sex. It's the desire to love a man on an intimate level, just as straight men love women. I didn't choose this.
I gotta refer everyone to this post from several months ago..It involved a discussion between himself and a heterosexual man who really couldn't find words to express the "why" of the love he feels for his wife..This homosexual man is explaining what love means to him..It is beautiful, full of compassion ..and sadness..Chris, you were also a poster in that thread..

http://www.city-data.com/forum/6213878-post78.html

 
Old 02-17-2009, 11:28 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 3,923,246 times
Reputation: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
All my life I have been struggling with homosexual desires. I was raised by a family so conservative they make Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell look like left wing nuts. I wouldn't put it beyond my dad to kill me if he ever found out about this. I would be disowned entirely by my family nonetheless. That said I was raised in a very conservative church just a little to the left of Westboro, where gays were usually blamed for various events as God's judgment for our nation's tolerance of homosexuality. I still believe in God however and have prayed numerous times for Him to take this burden from me, but it has not happened. In addition, I live in an extremely conservative area where it would be next to impossible for me to live as an open gay man. I would have to leave my church, friends, and family and would be completely alone. I don't think I could bear that. Not that in addition to a very possible reality that I would burn in hell for eternity for it. So I am basically stuck in a pathetic existence and I need to be prepared for a long lonely life. For whatever reason God will not lift this burden from me. To my fellow Christians, what advice do you give? I can't go to my church minister about this because I'll be excommunicated from the church. I can't go to my friends and I sure can't go to my family. I know on this board i've said some things about gays that I shouldn't have but that is due to my conservative surroundings and me fighting these desires. I apologize to those ive offended.
You really need to talk to someone. You can begin by forming relationships and friendships with your fellow Christians. You need to test these relations if you can trust them. Start by asking questions about other issues with being a Christian. Ultimately you will need to find people that you can talk to about your desires. The bible says confess your sins one to another. This will enable you to conquer these desires and form an acountability partner that will help you to stay faithful to God.

Homosexuality is a sin, just like stealing is a sin. In the ten commandments it says thou shalt not commit adultry. This is just a fancy way of saying don't have any sex with anyone out of a marriage relationship and the only marriage relationship is one between one man and one woman. So homosexuality is not worse than anything else, but as a sin it needs to be delt with.

If you find Christians who are not understanding with other things as you talk to them or they appear to be hostile towards Homosexuals, then these are not Christians. The bible says that Love covers a multitude of sin. Not so the person can keep sinning, but so they can find forgiveness and healing. Remember that Jesus said the two greatest commandments are these; love the lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and the seccond is like unto this, love your neighbor as yourself. So Christ said that upon these two COMMANDMENTS to love hung all of the law and of the prophetic (Basically all of the bible rests on these two things). So, as Christians we are commanded to love.

I hope that you will find the Christian relationships (whether pastors or friends) that will help you through this tough time in your life.
 
Old 02-17-2009, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 21,534,442 times
Reputation: 19858
Moderator cut: removed orphaned quoted post

All my Gay friends are very healthy and extremely productive... Thank you for the concern though. It is nice to know you care so much.

All of them are in committed loving HAPPY relationships, in great jobs and their lives are perfectly balanced and fulfilled. Primarily I suspect because nobody has ever made them feel like social outcasts or presumed to judge their sexuality as somehow "dysfunctional".

But then again I do live in Europe where reason, and common sense on the issue is a tad more prevalent and where being Gay is not seen as something which one needs to be "cured" from.

If by productive you mean they don't procreate well no but neither do I and I am straight.

I know plenty of heterosexuals whose lifestyle is way more unhealthy... Such as those who deny their very own nature , torture themselves mentally and end up either as closet Gay , marrying and having children and destroying other lives in the process or in extreme cases committing suicide because they cannot face who they truly are due to some people's bigoted attitude.


I want people to be happy. I don't really care what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom and as long as they are consenting adults who do not hurt anyone, kind hearted decent human beings who are positive for society I really do not see the problem.

This obsession ( there is no other word) about Gay people from some quarters puzzles me. It verges on the psychotic. It completely bemuses me. It almost indicates a very unhealthy interest in other people's sex lives...

Don't those holier than thou sanctimonious people have better things to actually do then point the finger at others. Can't they try and find some rather more serious issues like trying to eradicate poverty, war, slavery, human trafficking etc...

Last edited by Alpha8207; 02-17-2009 at 05:27 PM..
 
Old 02-17-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,522,283 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
I just have to say a few things. While I understand where you are coming from from a Christian perspective, if you have never had homosexual desires it's more difficult to have a full understanding of homosexuality. Let's look at it this way. Most straight men are able to distinguish between handsome men and ugly men. Just because you aren't sexually attracted to them doesn't take from the fact many men are very good looking. Some straight men subconsciously take this a step further. Ever wonder why handsome guys have handsome friends and ugly guys have ugly friends? I view women in the same way. Just because I am attracted to men doesn't mean I don't appreciate the beauty of the opposite sex. Likewise it would take a miracle of God to change my sexual orientation. What I don't think people who say these feelings are a choice understand is that a homosexual orientation is not about butt sex. In fact, there are some homosexuals who aren't into sex period. It's a frame of mind, a complete emotional, mental, and spiritual attraction to the same sex. It's the desire to love a man on an intimate level, just as straight men love women. I didn't choose this.
No, you didn't choose this. Neither did I. And what some people fail to or refuse to understand is that it's not about sex at all. It's about love, and who you're able to fall in love with. Sex is just a side bar to a relatiionship.
 
Old 02-17-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 21,534,442 times
Reputation: 19858
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
No, you didn't choose this. Neither did I. And what some people fail to or refuse to understand is that it's not about sex at all. It's about love, and who you're able to fall in love with. Sex is just a side bar to a relatiionship.
I agree. And Sex is part of a Loving relationship anyway in my opinion. I think human sexuality is so complex and varied just as we are as individuals and this obsession with trying to narrow us all into little neat boxes is so incredibly bizarre and dangerous.

Physical attraction is not something we can control. We may or may not act upon it but there is definitely a chemistry between people. It goes way beyond sex though sex of course still forms part of the equation.

I will never believe why people presume to tell others what is "right" and "normal" where Love is concerned.

We live in a world battered by hatred and war, poverty, slavery and all some posters can think about is whether someone is Gay or not ?

The mind quite frankly boggles.

As far as I am concerned we need more Love whichever shape and form it takes. As long as it is between consenting parties and does not hurt anyone else then we have no right to judge others by our own narrow standards.

Maybe for once some people should concentrate on their own sad pathetic little lives and grow up and stop giving "advice" to others. Their sanctimonious ignorant bigotry is really not helpful.
 
Old 02-17-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,522,283 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
You really need to talk to someone. You can begin by forming relationships and friendships with your fellow Christians. You need to test these relations if you can trust them. Start by asking questions about other issues with being a Christian. Ultimately you will need to find people that you can talk to about your desires. The bible says confess your sins one to another. This will enable you to conquer these desires and form an acountability partner that will help you to stay faithful to God.

Homosexuality is a sin, just like stealing is a sin. In the ten commandments it says thou shalt not commit adultry. This is just a fancy way of saying don't have any sex with anyone out of a marriage relationship and the only marriage relationship is one between one man and one woman. So homosexuality is not worse than anything else, but as a sin it needs to be delt with.

If you find Christians who are not understanding with other things as you talk to them or they appear to be hostile towards Homosexuals, then these are not Christians. The bible says that Love covers a multitude of sin. Not so the person can keep sinning, but so they can find forgiveness and healing. Remember that Jesus said the two greatest commandments are these; love the lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and the seccond is like unto this, love your neighbor as yourself. So Christ said that upon these two COMMANDMENTS to love hung all of the law and of the prophetic (Basically all of the bible rests on these two things). So, as Christians we are commanded to love.

I hope that you will find the Christian relationships (whether pastors or friends) that will help you through this tough time in your life.
Attempting to "convert" gay people to straight, or filling them with so much self hatred that they keep it to themselves, only contributes to an abnormally high suicide rate in young gay people.
 
Old 02-17-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,903,488 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
-How is projecting your own issues on to someone else, about love or honesty? How about listening to what he is actually saying?
He is asking for help and suggestions and I am merely being honest and open with him.

Quote:
-So if homosexuals got married, then they won't be having sex outside marriage, right? Otherwise they just need to steer clear of sex rituals in pagan temples, temple prostitution etc .
I am sorry but it doesnt work that way, marriage is specified to be between one man and one woman and not same sex unions.

Quote:
-I always thought "fornication" was just about lust, not love. Where did you get the idea that homosexuality is just about "lust"?
You really need to read Gods word for this answer because I am sure you will not accept mine.

Quote:
-Where did you get the idea that homosexuals cannot truly experience love? There are plenty of gay Christians who believe in God and believe that God loves them and who have loving committed long term relationships. And there are plenty of gay non-believers who have loving committed long term relationships. Your version of Christianity and your beliefs/opinions/views/experiences are not the only ones.
No one, whether homosexual or other, can trully experience love without God. All else is merely lust. I never said God did not love the homosexual, but according to scriptures sin seperates us from God and homosexuality is a sin. I will admit openly, until I came back to God, I did not know what love really was. Once I came back to God, my eyes were opened to the fact that we cannot experience love without God. This is why Christ said the two greatest commandment were in a particular order "Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind" and then "Love your neighbor as yourself." because you cannot trully love your neighbor or yourself without first loving God and everytime you sin you place a barrier between yourself and God and your love is lacking.



Quote:
-What has adultery got to do with homosexuality? Unless you're talking about those married "ex-gays" having same-sex affairs in secret because they are living in denial of who they really are.
Look at it like this, any sex you have outside of marriage is adultry. Consider for a moment God has a particular person in mind to be your spouse and you decide to do what you want rather than what God wants of you and you sleep with whoever you desire until you meet this person God has for you. You have commited adultry against your soulmate. Or for instance you think you are gay and have convinced yourself you were born that way, but God has it planned for you to marry a female who would satisfy you much more than you lust for others and due to your lust you miss out on the ultimate blessing of the ideal relationship because of your adulterous ways. Any sin against God is adultry because you are betraying God for the flesh.

You do not have to take my word for anything and you definitely do not have to believe me, but I have dealt with these things myself and anything I share with any sinner I do so in love because I do not want anyone to miss out on the blessings the Lord has for them.
 
Old 02-17-2009, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,522,283 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
He is asking for help and suggestions and I am merely being honest and open with him.



I am sorry but it doesnt work that way, marriage is specified to be between one man and one woman and not same sex unions.



You really need to read Gods word for this answer because I am sure you will not accept mine.



No one, whether homosexual or other, can trully experience love without God. All else is merely lust. I never said God did not love the homosexual, but according to scriptures sin seperates us from God and homosexuality is a sin. I will admit openly, until I came back to God, I did not know what love really was. Once I came back to God, my eyes were opened to the fact that we cannot experience love without God. This is why Christ said the two greatest commandment were in a particular order "Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind" and then "Love your neighbor as yourself." because you cannot trully love your neighbor or yourself without first loving God and everytime you sin you place a barrier between yourself and God and your love is lacking.





Look at it like this, any sex you have outside of marriage is adultry. Consider for a moment God has a particular person in mind to be your spouse and you decide to do what you want rather than what God wants of you and you sleep with whoever you desire until you meet this person God has for you. You have commited adultry against your soulmate. Or for instance you think you are gay and have convinced yourself you were born that way, but God has it planned for you to marry a female who would satisfy you much more than you lust for others and due to your lust you miss out on the ultimate blessing of the ideal relationship because of your adulterous ways. Any sin against God is adultry because you are betraying God for the flesh.

You do not have to take my word for anything and you definitely do not have to believe me, but I have dealt with these things myself and anything I share with any sinner I do so in love because I do not want anyone to miss out on the blessings the Lord has for them.
First of all, you insult me by saying that my 14 year relationship is only "lust". No one lusts someone else for 14 years! I won't try to get into someone else's mind and decide whether their "love" is true or correct, so I don't know how you can claim to do that.

And second, I guess you speak for God by claiming God doesn't recognize all the same sex marriages in this country. How do you know? I'm not legally married, becuase I can't be. But I certainly consider myself married.

I prayed to God for years to bring me that one female who I would be able to fall in love with, but he didn't. That's because there isn't one on this planet!
 
Old 02-17-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 3,923,246 times
Reputation: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Attempting to "convert" gay people to straight, or filling them with so much self hatred that they keep it to themselves, only contributes to an abnormally high suicide rate in young gay people.
I am not attempting to "convert" gay people to straight, although if someone who is gay reads my post and feels conviction for the sin in their life and decides to accept what Jesus did on the cross to cover their sins and the turn from their wicked ways, then fine. I will happily accept the concequences of more people coming to Christ "being converted" by my words. But the OP is about a Christian who is experiencing desires for the same sex. This is a Christian matter and this person needs to see the love of the Father in their life helping to cope with these sinful desires.

I think that your accusations against me are unwarranted. I don't think telling people of their sin cause abnormal high suicide rates (I think this would be difficult to prove, since we would have to specifically tell a group of homosexuals about their sin and have another control group of the same demographics and compare suicide rates after a certain amount of time). I think those commiting suicide (which is murder and the breaking of an entirely separate Commandment) need to seek council for other issues.
 
Old 02-17-2009, 02:29 PM
 
2,955 posts, read 6,632,723 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
I don't think telling people of their sin cause abnormal high suicide rates (I think this would be difficult to prove, since we would have to specifically tell a group of homosexuals about their sin and have another control group of the same demographics and compare suicide rates after a certain amount of time).
If you hadn't noticed, the OP is an individual person and the topic is his individual situation.
You can deny that there is any correlation between religious guilt and suicides by homosexuals, but the OP has mentioned that he experienced both in tandem. To me, your dismissal of that is proof that you don't care about the individual but only about the Christian status quo. Why else would you bring such subjective (and off-topic) arguments to the thread when they don't add anything to the discussion?

Anyway, I can feel this thread going the way of every "gay" thread that comes up on this forum and that is sad because the OP has reached out for help with a sensitive situation. The OP himself has expressed his wish that petty bickering be put on hold if even for just this one thread.

To the OP: I think you are in a good position to move forward. You obviously know your Bible and your religion. And you also understand your sexuality. Hopefully the usual CD chatter doesn't get in your way. I wish you good luck in with whatever decision you make. I suspect that whatever you do will will be difficult but rewarding.
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