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You have to remember that the gay community is completely different than any other community.
Casual sex is the norm. Dating and relationships are rare and purely for sexual reasons when a relationship does happen to form. Friendship is rare amongst gays. Internalized homophobia is a problem. Homosexual sex is the leading cause of contracting the AIDS virus. Most homosexual men meet at bars and nightclubs. The gay community isn't peaches and roses by any means. It is a sordid community of decadence, not because they are attracted to the same sex but because of their behaviors and lack of morals.
I inform you all on this topic with the utmost respect towards the gay community. I realize the community has suffered through decades of oppression. I recognize that many gay people were oppressed individually and treated with discrimination and bias their entire lives. That is wrong and unfair. It is hard to be a great community when so many want the community to just vanish.
You have a very distorted opinion about gays and lesbians. What experience have you based your opinion on? What age group are you talking about? Where have you met these people and how much of their lives did you experience? What makes you think you are an "expert" about this "topic" to "inform" people about the gay "community"?
Have you ever been to a dinner party or a large family BBQ at a gay persons house? Have you ever gone on a picnic or to a sporting event with a bunch of gays and/or lesbians? A commitment ceremony? A family wedding? A birthday party? A gay Church group? A 5 year old's birthday party with lots of gay parents?
I live in a big city where there are several hundred thousand gays and lesbians from all walks of life and ages groups. Some of the younger gay men in their 20's might behave like you describe (much the same as many young straight males who are "players") but even of the younger ones, most have good friends just like straight people of a similar age group, and most are either in relationships or looking to be in a relationship just like most straight people. Usually by their 30's or 40's many gay men (and especially lesbians) have settled down with partners just like straight people, and quite a few have children. You also clearly don't know anything at all about lesbians if you think most are into casual sex and don't have relationships or friendships.
You might be surprised what ordinary lives the majority of gay people lead once you leave your prejudice behind and spend the time to get to know them. You won't get to really know a gay person in a nightclub full of single "20 somethings " anymore than you would get to really know a straight person in nightclub of single "20 somethings". And you certainly won't get to really know any gay people at all if you approach someone who is gay and spout off narrow uninformed opinions like those above.
I hope you are able to read these good posts and pass over those that are horrendous. For one thing the Bible has been misintrepreted in regards to homosexuality being wrong, but that would be for another thread.
If you can move away from your family and friends do so. Most people leave home and move away anyway, and many leave family just because of the conflicts for other reasons. This doesn't mean that you can't visit them now and then. And friends that love you will accept you as you are.
Like Ring I was a Jehovah's Witness and left and I lost all my friends. It was not easy, but as I made new friends I felt better. I would certainly not tell your friends and family anything until you have made a new life for yourself and until you are in a happier frame of mind. Not that you ever have to tell them anything.
Homosexuality is genetic. And God does not hate homosexuals. No use in praying to him to change what is natural. It won't work. If you want scripture or other proof just let me know.
Also, if you are interested in church there are churches that accept gays.
But I agree with those that say that you need to get on a gay forum or find some gays in your community or just outside your community that can help you.
Here is an Time Magazine article on evidence of a gay gene, and there are more like it:
You have to remember that the gay community is completely different than any other community.
Casual sex is the norm. Dating and relationships are rare and purely for sexual reasons when a relationship does happen to form. Friendship is rare amongst gays. Internalized homophobia is a problem. Homosexual sex is the leading cause of contracting the AIDS virus. Most homosexual men meet at bars and nightclubs. The gay community isn't peaches and roses by any means. It is a sordid community of decadence, not because they are attracted to the same sex but because of their behaviors and lack of morals.
I inform you all on this topic with the utmost respect towards the gay community. I realize the community has suffered through decades of oppression. I recognize that many gay people were oppressed individually and treated with discrimination and bias their entire lives. That is wrong and unfair. It is hard to be a great community when so many want the community to just vanish.
artsyguy, you have laid it out so clearly here. The grass is not always greener on the other side. It is extremely difficult for someone with morals to make friends within the gay community. If sex is all the the straight male cares about, well it is 100 times worse with self professed gay male. I wish I could have read something like this 10 years ago, it possibly could have saved my marriage.
Why would a loving God make me suffer like this? I can live a lonely life of celibacy (which is what most ex-gays do), but I can't make heterosexual desires happen that just aren't there. To try and fake it would only put me in position to be a Ted Haggard and thats the last thing I want with my life. I have prayed and prayed and prayed for God to make me straight. Every revival, every church camp, every sunday school when prayer requests were asked I asked for an unspoken, every sunday morning I went to the alter and begged God to make me straight, and it hasnt' happened. If this is God's purpose for me in life...for me to be completely alone, what point is there in even living? I know God works in mysterious ways and there are some things we won't understand on this side of death, but when I think about my life in 30 years...my family will be gone. Who will I have in this world then? I am already in my mid-20s, I still have time left but I am starting to realize that time will eventually run out and sooner than I ever expected when I was a teenager and thought I had all the time in the world. Friends can only take us so far - we were meant as humans to have intimate companionship.
God is not making you suffer like this, those who think that God hates homosexuals are making you suffer like this. It is not God's purpose for you to be alone.
You said that you were shy, but you are not shy on here, so I would suggest again that you find a website that can be of help to you, and then eventually you will be able to meet new people. Perhaps some on the website will live near you.
I know what it is like in Arkansas. I live just over the line in OK. I live in a small town, but there are some gays here and they seem to be accepted by many in town. Certainly not the fundamentalist Christians.
Last edited by Mattie Jo; 02-16-2009 at 07:57 AM..
Would you please consider contacting Exodus International - freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ.
Any ethical psychologist or counsellor would not be involved in so called "reparative" therapy. The American Psychologist's Association cautions against it not only for the mental and emotional harm it can cause, but also because there are no reputable scientific studies that show that it actually works in the long run. (NARTH's so called studies in this area have been discredited because of their religious bias and unscientific methods).
Gay or bisexual people who have been raised to believe homosexuality is a religious sin or is wrong, can be easily guilt tripped and shamed into denying their orientation. They are usually internally homophobic because of their upbringing and hate who they are. These "ex-gay" organisations try to convince them that they must try to "behave" as if they are heterosexual or to just remain celebate. But it's a denial of who they really are - which is never healthy, either mentally or emotionally or spritually.
Homosexual orientation is not just about sex or behviour, it's also a mental and emotional orientation towards those of the same sex. This is not something that can really be changed. The only "successful" cases are if the person was bi-sexual and had at least some attraction to the opposite sex in the first place. It can be extremely destructive to the person themselves and can ruin the lives of those they use by marrying to try hide their orientation.
Personally, I would never want my daughter to marry an "ex-gay" man. It would be a disaster waiting to happen.
artsyguy, you have laid it out so clearly here. The grass is not always greener on the other side. It is extremely difficult for someone with morals to make friends within the gay community. If sex is all the the straight male cares about, well it is 100 times worse with self professed gay male. I wish I could have read something like this 10 years ago, it possibly could have saved my marriage.
Sounds like you and artsyguy both have similar views on homosexuality. Perhaps you two could get together and just hold hands in secret while reading Bible verses about David and Jonathan's friendship. (1 Samuel & 2 Samuel).
You have a very distorted opinion about gays and lesbians. What experience have you based your opinion on? What age group are you talking about? Where have you met these people and how much of their lives did you experience? What makes you think you are an "expert" about this "topic" to "inform" people about the gay "community"?
Have you ever been to a dinner party or a large family BBQ at a gay persons house? Have you ever gone on a picnic or to a sporting event with a bunch of gays and/or lesbians? A commitment ceremony? A family wedding? A birthday party? A gay Church group? A 5 year old's birthday party with lots of gay parents?
I live in a big city where there are several hundred thousand gays and lesbians from all walks of life and ages groups. Some of the younger gay men in their 20's might behave like you describe (much the same as many young straight males who are "players") but even of the younger ones, most have good friends just like straight people of a similar age group, and most are either in relationships or looking to be in a relationship just like most straight people. Usually by their 30's or 40's many gay men (and especially lesbians) have settled down with partners just like straight people, and quite a few have children. You also clearly don't know anything at all about lesbians if you think most are into casual sex and don't have relationships or friendships.
You might be surprised what ordinary lives the majority of gay people lead once you leave your prejudice behind and spend the time to get to know them. You won't get to really know a gay person in a nightclub full of single "20 somethings " anymore than you would get to really know a straight person in nightclub of single "20 somethings". And you certainly won't get to really know any gay people at all if you approach someone who is gay and spout off narrow uninformed opinions like those above.
I used to work for AT&T in a very large gay community in Wilton Manors, Florida which is practically northeast Ft. Lauderdale. While I completely changed my views about gays the further away my religious past showed in my rear view mirror, there was still one thing I was not too sure of until coming in close contact with that community. It was, whether or not they actually functioned like heterosexuals in their daily lives with the one obvious exception. I was pleasantly surprised. I must have entered over 200 of their homes and outside of ONE instance when the customer was toasted (drunk), not one of them ever even remotely came close to making a "pass" at me (the drunk guy tried to offer me wine and I did not know where he was going with that one...lol).
As a Christian (once upon a time), I had all these weird, unfounded prejudices about them just like I now know what it now feels like as an unbeliever to see what [quite a few] Christians feel and think about atheists (they are immoral, satanists, perverts and participants in plans to take over the world and kill Christians), I now know better. The gay community was rather pleasant to me. Their homes were often very clean and immaculate compared to some other dumps on the other side of town. None of them ever tried anything, they often left me alone to do my job and were more than courteous. They also were rather generous. Sometimes I met them as couples and they were not deep throating each other while I was there or trying to prove to me how "gay" they were. Often they went about their business just like anybody else or any other couple.
I can even remember one of them threatening AT&T on my behalf on one of my first jobs when as a rookie, I busted a pipe in his wall while drilling to run a cat-5 wire. He did not even call to make a complaint and would have called to fix it himself. AT&T called him to a do a survey and that is when he mentioned the problem because I told him to knowing they (AT&T) could possibly do a physical follow up. In telling them what happened, he gave AT&T a threat that if they even thought about firing me, he (a community activist) would campaign in his community to rid it of AT&T's service. The funny thing was, I got a commendation out of it. (lol). What was also interesting about this was that some of my co-workers were either fired or reprimanded for lesser gaffs from customers bitching and moaning about a boot print on their carpet to a tech leaving a tire track on a customer's driveway.
I found NO difference, bad or good, while I worked in their community. Even found some deeply religious ones and that really surprised me because up until then, I ignorantly thought gay and religious could not be in the same sentence.
Personally, I would never want my daughter to marry an "ex-gay" man. It would be a disaster waiting to happen.
I did a little poll on a Caribbean website a few years back. You see, I used to attend a church where one year we had a men's conference which included one "class" led by a guest who was a "former" gay person. No matter what our ears heard his actions and antics contradicted it. To make matters worse, he was flamboyant and charismatic, the very two things many observers often associate with ALL gay people. Listening to the whispers, he really did not convince anyone he was not STILL gay despite the fact he aid he was married and had one child.
Anyway the poll question was, "would you marry a former gay person?" The responses were unanimously in favor of the "nays." What was interesting was that I asked this question to people who believe having gay people around can "make" others gay. Some of these people also believed that gay people could change by the "power of God" but when asked if they would marry one who claimed they were "changed by the power of God," none would do it. Go figure.
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