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Old 02-20-2009, 04:09 AM
 
7,535 posts, read 4,024,473 times
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Quote:


It seems to me though it is fast going by way of gossip. I'm sure you have heard of the game of gossip where you get many people in a room. You get in a circle and the first person starts a sentence from something that is written on paper and that person whispers what is on the paper to the person next to them and so on until the last person. Then the last person says what has been whispered to them and you compare it to what is written on the paper to see how close what is said, is what is on the paper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Simply not true.

It was originally Greek and Hebrew. The versions we have today are not simply rewrites of rewrites. They're based off of the original texts.

That's just not what has happened here.
From what I have seen written on these forums in people's discussions, I'm sorry I am of a different opinion. I feel as though the bible has been rewritten so many times no one knows what it says any more.
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:44 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 3,266,516 times
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Updating the Bible to fit with current times? How novel (no pun) a concept. I mean we update everything else. Why not that. It wierd how fast people cling to something so ancient and treat it all so literal without any second thought.
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Old 02-20-2009, 06:47 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,796,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
It seems to me though it is fast going by way of gossip. I'm sure you have heard of the game of gossip where you get many people in a room. You get in a circle and the first person starts a sentence from something that is written on paper and that person whispers what is on the paper to the person next to them and so on until the last person. Then the last person says what has been whispered to them and you compare it to what is written on the paper to see how close what is said, is what is on the paper.
Actually I love this illustration because it realistically describes how things can change over time. However, in the case of the Bible, we do have many of the oldest manuscripts available in libraries and museums for us to compare.

Take for example the Dark Ages. It was a bad time for the Bible. Most of the major religions tried their best to destroy or at the very least, keep it out of the hands of the common people. Many famous individuals lost their lives in pursuit of translating it into various languages of the common people back then. In the late 1800s and the 20th century, many newer archealogical finds of some of the oldest manuscripts ever found were discovered. Certanly we can compare to the oldest available manuscripts and find that there were only ever minor grammatical errors, but the word for the most part has been untouched. Of course that does'nt mean that some Clergy have not attempted to re-write the history of some of it's content to promote personal dogma. They have. but fortunately we know who and what they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell
From what I have seen written on these forums in people's discussions, I'm sorry I am of a different opinion. I feel as though the bible has been rewritten so many times no one knows what it says any more.
I think it's the interpretation which has been rewritten over and over.
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:13 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 1,990,990 times
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Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
In the case of the four Gospel writers, their own styles and different observations of the same event are indeed interesting and do not conflict. I could commission four of this very forum's most pronounced atheists to write down their observations on a specific scientific experiment for which I have knowledge of. Perhaps something of microbiology with regard to mycorrhizal applications into the commercial forest plant production in a nursery in a controlled environmental setting with and without innoculations of fungal spores on two groups of the same species of pine seedlings . Each observer over time would have their own style of writting. They would also take note of different aspects of the same experiment for which they were intrigued and found interest in. They would not all comment exactly, word for word on the same observations, but they'd all be correct in what they no doubt did observe in the experiment.

do you consider that 4 Gospeles dons't conflict !!!!!!!!!!!!
anyway , i will not talking about the conflicts within 4 Gospeles , if you choose to believe that so it's okey

actually i have more important question
isn't other bibles (banned ones) are written by inspired writeres either and God allowed them to write thier style ??????
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:45 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,901,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post


From what I have seen written on these forums in people's discussions, I'm sorry I am of a different opinion. I feel as though the bible has been rewritten so many times no one knows what it says any more.

I'm sorry....that's just simply not the case. The texts we use today are from around the 2nd through the 5th century. We have thousands of texts.

The original King James Bible was written based on Erasmus' writings, based off of 5-6 different manuscripts. Since then we've discovered much, much older manuscripts, and many many more of them. We can be pretty sure that what we have is about 99% accurate--with the little bit of discrepancies surrounding non-essential text.



Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
do you consider that 4 Gospeles dons't conflict !!!!!!!!!!!!
anyway , i will not talking about the conflicts within 4 Gospeles , if you choose to believe that so it's okey

actually i have more important question
isn't other bibles (banned ones) are written by inspired writeres either and God allowed them to write thier style ??????
Do you mean the gnostics? Gospel of Thomas, etc?

If you read them and compare them to the 4 gospels, you'll see that there really is no comparison. They just have an entirely different "feel" to them...and are just much different. It's just obvious that they don't belong in the cannon.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:02 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 1,990,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
Take for example the Dark Ages. It was a bad time for the Bible. Most of the major religions tried their best to destroy or at the very least, keep it out of the hands of the common people. Many famous individuals lost their lives in pursuit of translating it into various languages of the common people back then. In the late 1800s and the 20th century, many newer archealogical finds of some of the oldest manuscripts ever found were discovered. Certanly we can compare to the oldest available manuscripts and find that there were only ever minor grammatical errors, but the word for the most part has been untouched. Of course that does'nt mean that some Clergy have not attempted to re-write the history of some of it's content to promote personal dogma. They have. but fortunately we know who and what they are. I think it's the interpretation which has been rewritten over and over.


"
The scholar Tom Harper records:

Obviously, you have to regard with deep suspicion any group or movement, however noble its declarations, that proceeds to win its "case" by silencing, excommunicating, or murdering its assumed opponents. Yet most Christians today are totally unaware that Church history conceals a horrendous, lengthy record of precisely these kinds of tactics by the proponents of what eventually became "orthodox", credal belief. What's more, the kind of bigoted fury unleashed in the third and fourth centuries against Pagans, "heretics", and nonconformists of all types set a ruthless precedent for centuries to come. The comparatively modern Church historian G.R.S. Mead cites, for example, the burning of the manuscripts of French rabbis during the notorious Inquisition and the vandalism of fanatical crusaders, “who left smouldering piles of Hebrew scrolls behind them in their path of blood and fire”. Kuhn argues that the official burnings of Hebrew books began at Montpellier, France, in 1233, with the commitment to the flames of all the works of Maimonides (1135-1204), the renowned Jewish philosopher and theologian. In the same year at Paris, some twelve thousand volumes of the Talmud were burned, and in 1244, eighteen thousand other various works were thrown into fire, he records.

Epiphanius (315 403), the rigidly conservative bishop of Salamiz, in an attack upon the “Sabellian heretics” (who found they couldn’t follow the majority view of the Trinity), wrote that “the whole of their errors…they derive from…that which is called the Gospel of the Egyptians”. Kuhn remarks, “Priceless in value would be that same Gospel of the Egyptians if Christian fury had not destroyed it. Another priceless book, The True Logos by Celsus, one of the most noted Pagan philosophers of the second century, was likewise burned. The brilliant Gnostic philosopher Basildes (c. 135-150) taught at Alexandria in the second quarter of the second century and claimed to know of a secret tradition transmitted by St. Peter himself. He was highly regarded even by so eminent a Christian theologian and Church Father as Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-215). Yet according to Eusebius, his irreplaceable, widely renowned Interpretations of the Gospels – in twenty-four splendid volumes – were all burned “by order of the Church”. Thirty-six priceless volumes written by Porphyry (c. 232-303), one of the most learned and brilliant minds of his era, were destroyed by the Church Fathers. Porphyry, a Neoplatonist philosopher who could not accept the divinity of Christ and who exposed numerous inconsistencies in the Gospels, had tried official Christianity for a brief time but found it sadly wanting. Fifteen of his burned books formed a special series called Against the Christians. Scholars would give a lot to have them now.

All of this mayhem was a further deliberate attempt to "blot out all links" between the Christian body of doctrine and any Pagan material. The top Church authorities were not content with the original, specious allegation that Satan had been behind all the amazing resemblances – they even talked of "anticipated plagiarism", charging that the devil stole the rites, doctrines, and dogmas centuries before they became accepted by the Church – so they destroyed as far as possible the entire Pagan record to obliterate the evidence of their own dishonesty. (The Pagan Christ, pp. 61-63)

The utter destruction of the 500,000 to 750,000 books and scrolls of the incredible library at Alexandria by a Christian mob stands as perhaps the greatest single testimony to the overwhelming hatred of learning and education held by the rank-and-file majority who flocked to the new religion. (ibid, p. 61)"
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:09 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 1,990,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post




Do you mean the gnostics? Gospel of Thomas, etc?

If you read them and compare them to the 4 gospels, you'll see that there really is no comparison. They just have an entirely different "feel" to them...and are just much different. It's just obvious that they don't belong in the cannon.
i mean generally the banned books .
but what do you mean by " belong in the cannon" ? what is the cannon ?
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:11 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,901,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i mean generally the banned books .
but what do you mean by " belong in the cannon" ? what is the cannon ?

By Cannon, I mean the 66 accepted books in the Bible. The 4 gospels are accepted as part of it...the gnostics are not. I think by "banned books" you mean the books that are not part of the Cannon.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:30 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,375,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
The writers were inspired, but in very few places of the Bible are the words dictated word for word.

God allowed the writers to put some of their own styles into it. He also allowed them to speak in language that would be understood by the people of the time.
So why did he not allow it to be written in a way that would be understood by all people of all time?
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Old 02-20-2009, 12:08 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 1,990,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
By Cannon, I mean the 66 accepted books in the Bible. The 4 gospels are accepted as part of it...the gnostics are not. I think by "banned books" you mean the books that are not part of the Cannon.

in which time this canon established ?
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