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I happen to disagree strongly to the idea that life must be some personal martydom to progress spiritually that you appear to endorse above, or that someone born with genetalia different from the "norm" somehow inherently suffer.
Any suffering people labor under comes directly from those who consider themselves "normal".
When I said people with deformities suffer tragically- I may have come off wrong, and I was actually going a bit past the hermaphroditic people (cos I don't see that as a tragedy, more of a physical anomaly). But as for hermaphrodites- I agree fully with what you said, and meant that they suffer because of people and the societal standards the masses like to place on them, not because of anything to do with how they were born. As for hermaphrodites specifically- I'd imagine that if nobody made a big deal about it, and it wasn't made out to be a "curse" by society, that hermaphrodites wouldn't be having any of the issues that they have been known to have. Nor would homosexuals, for that matter. Personally, I don't think the word "normal" has any meaning whatsoever, other than what certain people from certain circles, depending on the time and the place, make that word mean.
However, some people ARE born with serious deformities and, as a result, do suffer on an extreme level that is completely within their own bodies and lives, having nothing to do with society. And I do maintain that their life experience, call it suffering or not, IS a learning experience. One that I personally like to see as positive on a deep spiritual level- both for them, and those they encounter during their lifetime.
About the martyrdom- I don't see what I was describing as martyrdom at all- I'll leave martyrdom to the catholics. I see any and every situation within our lives and world, be it good or bad (which depends on an individual's perspective, I suppose) as learning. Which might or might not involve suffering- it's just like you said, just because someone has something "different" about them doesn't mean that they will suffer, nor does it mean that they won't. It's all about how any situation is dealt with, and about a million other variables.
I do want to add that I wish society and people in general would celebrate our human differences, both physical and otherwise, rather than condemn them. I think it comes from fear- probably the same place that some people's inherent need for some sort of religion, usually of an organized nature (NOT basic inherent spirituality), comes from. I say step out of the box- how sucky and boring would it be if we were all the same? And what the hell would we all have to talk about?!?
suffering mentally, or quietly, being subjugated to just what "biggotry, ignorrance and ........ etc. " anyway point is suffering is suffering not just physical from my experience i have had back surgery and it altered my life collapsed disk, sciatica and though painful and immobilizing i dont consider the physical pain ive suffered nearly as troubling as the mental anguish, so iam " clear as i ever was dear!" i am not quick to jump on anything else other than statements that i totally disagree with and i do disagree with you on this! actually , i stumbled onto this place when i was in a bad mood and it seems that it was a mistake on my part because i just dont see all of this discussion as productive! facts are facts, depression and jaded views are exactly that and i am jaded, i am tainted, and just plain irritated with " right wing views" ( not speaking directly about you , ok? its just that ive always tried to examine whether something i am doing is productive and me taking out " admitted anger" on people here in the end, well like bill murray said in meatballs it just doesnt matter, in the end, " we are all tiny cavefish in the womb" lol, now if that makes sense walk, no run to your nearest mental health faciilty , and while your at it tell them i want spaghetti and meatballs for dinner ( mental hospital menu) and tell that cook to stop looking at my Moderator cut: deleted due to content when i stand in line, better yet, tell him im transgendered, that ought to bring out his good qualities? , good luck to you all and to all a good life, no offense meant, and excuse me while i kiss the sky! etc. etc. regards,ks
hermaphrodite condition is not a abnormality...it is a perfecting of the body...if certain condition arise in the world then only one human is necessary to proliferate the species...it is self preserving in a natural way..so only one is needed...it helps to maintain hope for the human condition.
It is not only found in humans..it is in other animals, and it is also in plants....it is not abnormal!
it is a perfecting...
the first Adam was one...and God made him/her...predominately a male...and usually that is what rules over the offspring...as Male was predominate in the first...the second or splitting would first produce another like itself...Male predomiately...Solely with Godly intervention, and secondly Female with Godly intervention...dividing the one into two...seperate and split completely individiuals...one completely male, and one completely female....all three are correct forms made by God, or of God's making....according to scriputral ideals....what Humans make when breading in sin...that is another story!
When I said people with deformities suffer tragically- I may have come off wrong, and I was actually going a bit past the hermaphroditic people (cos I don't see that as a tragedy, more of a physical anomaly). But as for hermaphrodites- I agree fully with what you said, and meant that they suffer because of people and the societal standards the masses like to place on them, not because of anything to do with how they were born. As for hermaphrodites specifically- I'd imagine that if nobody made a big deal about it, and it wasn't made out to be a "curse" by society, that hermaphrodites wouldn't be having any of the issues that they have been known to have. Nor would homosexuals, for that matter. Personally, I don't think the word "normal" has any meaning whatsoever, other than what certain people from certain circles, depending on the time and the place, make that word mean.
However, some people ARE born with serious deformities and, as a result, do suffer on an extreme level that is completely within their own bodies and lives, having nothing to do with society. And I do maintain that their life experience, call it suffering or not, IS a learning experience. One that I personally like to see as positive on a deep spiritual level- both for them, and those they encounter during their lifetime.
About the martyrdom- I don't see what I was describing as martyrdom at all- I'll leave martyrdom to the catholics. I see any and every situation within our lives and world, be it good or bad (which depends on an individual's perspective, I suppose) as learning. Which might or might not involve suffering- it's just like you said, just because someone has something "different" about them doesn't mean that they will suffer, nor does it mean that they won't. It's all about how any situation is dealt with, and about a million other variables.
I do want to add that I wish society and people in general would celebrate our human differences, both physical and otherwise, rather than condemn them. I think it comes from fear- probably the same place that some people's inherent need for some sort of religion, usually of an organized nature (NOT basic inherent spirituality), comes from. I say step out of the box- how sucky and boring would it be if we were all the same? And what the hell would we all have to talk about?!?
I stand corrected on people born differently.
However, I do stand by my reply to your statement concerning martydom, which apperently has been erased by a mod.
suffering mentally, or quietly, being subjugated to just what "biggotry, ignorrance and ........ etc. " anyway point is suffering is suffering not just physical from my experience i have had back surgery and it altered my life collapsed disk, sciatica and though painful and immobilizing i dont consider the physical pain ive suffered nearly as troubling as the mental anguish, so iam " clear as i ever was dear!" i am not quick to jump on anything else other than statements that i totally disagree with and i do disagree with you on this! actually , i stumbled onto this place when i was in a bad mood and it seems that it was a mistake on my part because i just dont see all of this discussion as productive! facts are facts, depression and jaded views are exactly that and i am jaded, i am tainted, and just plain irritated with " right wing views" ( not speaking directly about you , ok? its just that ive always tried to examine whether something i am doing is productive and me taking out " admitted anger" on people here in the end, well like bill murray said in meatballs it just doesnt matter, in the end, " we are all tiny cavefish in the womb" lol, now if that makes sense walk, no run to your nearest mental health faciilty , and while your at it tell them i want spaghetti and meatballs for dinner ( mental hospital menu) and tell that cook to stop looking at my Moderator cut: deleted due to content when i stand in line, better yet, tell him im transgendered, that ought to bring out his good qualities? , good luck to you all and to all a good life, no offense meant, and excuse me while i kiss the sky! etc. etc. regards,ks
Forgive me, but I'm very confused by this! Is it me that you are disagreeing with? I'm assuming so since you posted directly after me... if so, I want to clarify that I never said suffering was only physical. It should go without saying that anyone who endures serious physical suffering is pretty much guaranteed to suffer emotionally as well, the two go hand in hand.
Ok, so you're saying that an intelligent animal like a dog who clearly exhibits an awareness of it's own existence and obviously can interact with human beings at a very intelligent level doesn't even have a mind or is conscious of itself? If you were to look into the skull of a dog you'd find a functioning brain so your statement is obviously false.
There are times that I think that animals are more intelligent than us humans or at least as intelligent than humans, just in a different way. Dogs, for example, are able to survive based upon simply being....they know their devotion to to humans in-turn rewards them. They have little to do in life, they are able to sleep as long as they please, and play as long as they want and still have basic living quarters and food...and they seem to relate to us in ways other humans can not... now that intelligence, in my book. Birds can fly, humans can not... fish can swim for miles, humans can not. We are all gifted with special intelligence. Also, I do think dogs talk to each other, even without the use of words...that would make them super intelligent, I would think.
hermaphrodite condition is not a abnormality...it is a perfecting of the body...if certain condition arise in the world then only one human is necessary to proliferate the species...it is self preserving in a natural way..so only one is needed...it helps to maintain hope for the human condition.
It is not only found in humans..it is in other animals, and it is also in plants....it is not abnormal!
it is a perfecting...
the first Adam was one...and God made him/her...predominately a male...and usually that is what rules over the offspring...as Male was predominate in the first...the second or splitting would first produce another like itself...Male predomiately...Solely with Godly intervention, and secondly Female with Godly intervention...dividing the one into two...seperate and split completely individiuals...one completely male, and one completely female....all three are correct forms made by God, or of God's making....according to scriputral ideals....what Humans make when breading in sin...that is another story!
If all that I have read is true hermaphrodites are sterile and can not reproduce. This would prevent their multi sex condition from saving the planet when we screw up enough to kill ourselves off.
We are finding it more in animals as we pollute the environment we see many more reptiles with both sexes than anytime in recorded history. It might be time for us to wake up and smell the river again.
If all that I have read is true hermaphrodites are sterile and can not reproduce. This would prevent their multi sex condition from saving the planet when we screw up enough to kill ourselves off.
We are finding it more in animals as we pollute the environment we see many more reptiles with both sexes than anytime in recorded history. It might be time for us to wake up and smell the river again.
That may be true?...But with God,...they can be made furtile again...to repopulate any world God brings them to...it is easier to take one human holding both genders, then two humans holding one of each!
think about Atomic sub atomic energy transferal...and conservitive mindedness and efficiancy of God. ...and God has made many mansions this way...taking ADAM the hermaphrodite from one place, and putting him at the begining of the story somewhere else!.....and then splitting them apart...etc to make new worlds...new kingdoms...all over the universe and maybe even beyond...so Jesus says!
This time God took "The son of Man"...Jesus (born compliant)And Jesus said he was going to make another place for THose who believe...and DO the Will of the Father....
I went to high school with a hermaphrodite, back in the early 60's when such a thing would never be spoken of. She had male and female genitals (although her male genetalia was only half formed), but also "looked" very masculine in appearance and yet she wanted to be a "she" and she had a female name. I was one of the few who befriended her and she was, in every way except appearance, a female. I mean, she liked feminine things, was attracted to boys, etc. It was the saddest thing I could imagine. I think if she had been born in today's world there would have been surgeries and hormone therapy to correct what "god" did to her...but she was born in the 40's, like me, and was destined to a very cruel life. I do not believe god did this or even approved of it, I think it was a genetic or hormonal flaw during her conception. If in fact it was god, then shame on him!
God creates everyone for His purpose, God loves us ALL. We live in a fallen world, shame on us for being sinners! Nothing on this earth is perfect, not even you, this world is passing. God will create a new heaven and a new earth and all old things will pass away. Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and there is no other way but through Him, follow His way because this road is the road to salvation. May the Lord bless and keep you in His name I pray, God bless you and yours!
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suffering can be both physical, and mental!
...and God has made many mansions this way...taking ADAM the hermaphrodite from one place, and putting him at the begining of the story somewhere else!.....and then splitting them apart...etc to make new worlds...new kingdoms...all over the universe and maybe even beyond...so Jesus says!
