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Old 01-13-2010, 01:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Sin has saturated this world so much that mistakes happen in genetic codes, illnesses, choices and so on. Gods intent was for all to be perfect but due to mans perversion over 6000 years some things have gotten screwy in the genetic code.

As for someone being born gay or staight there is no medical evidence for someone being born either way and the statement earlier of a gay man having more female hormones or a gay woman having more male hormones is a myth and not factual. If that were the case then gay men would be growing breasts and have less hair on their bodies and gay females would have very little breasts if any and more body hair.

All the evidence points to it being a choice, just as the hermaphrodite chooses which sex he/she will identify themselves with and they do have mixed hormones to lead either life.
Good Gods, not another YECer.

Firstly, the human race is much older than 6000 years, we know this for a fact. Modern humans evolved nearly 200,000 years ago.

Secondly, all facts point to homosexuality being as inherent and inborn as hetersexuality.

Sexuality isn't a choice, but religion is.
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:21 PM
 
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skywatcher, i really cant see how this is all a laughing matter in any way! i hope that your "lol" thing was meant in the right way , honestly cant see how someone could make a joke of this knowing what i know , having been through what ive been through ya know? my issue is with anyone who blanket covers the whole christian response ("right wing response" may be more appropriate) and having actually no idea what they are talking about in most cases they point out that anyone different from them is a sinner! sometimes things are not simple , i know that in my case and most ive ever communicated with, we would all just rather have been born into a " neat little group" then we wouldnt be having this discussion but, i wasnt , and so for the future of people in my " predicament" i stand up and shout back at Moderator cut: deleted due to insult people who assume way too much in most cases and dont consider how tough it is to live the lives we do! i was married for 12 years i tried to do and act as society seemed to want me too but it gets old when your natural way of doing things , the way you look , all that stuff, it just intereferes with simple day to day things that in my case i just finally had to say " look people , this is me, like it or lump it here i am, judge me on my merits as a parent, a person such things as that rather than not being able to fit into a category of your choosing!, this goes really deep people , i have alot of anger at this time because i feel i ve been gipped, robbed of a life that should have been " simpler " , kelli

Last edited by june 7th; 01-15-2010 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Partisanship Is An Intellectual/Emotional Handicap
1,851 posts, read 1,821,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
Nothing is "god's creation". There are very specific medical reasons why some people are born as hermaphrodites.
I think By "Medical" ...did you really meant "Biological".
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Deguire View Post
Where do they fit into the "No, people are not born gay/Yes, people are born gay" argument?

Why exactly would God create such people considering the bible says God created both male and female and not some combination?

From My Study of the Bible...In the begining God created Adam, And Adam was in Eden tending and keeping it well......Adam saw other creaters with mates...and Adam was alone in this regard, So God caused a great sleep to come over him, And God spilt him into two parts...One male, One Female...

Now how does this happen?....Both male and female gender are in one body....Could be the solution to the first degree.

The first Adam could be a Hermaphrodite....and this DNA is in Male and Female DNA>

Now When this was done...they were told this and that, which they did not adhere to...And God kicked them out of the Garden , into Death.

And in Death they multipied greatly...and had all kinds of Abomonations through their constant inbreeding and mixing of bloodlines...over and over....doing everything but what God asked us to do, to get out of it....

So you have all the info as public domain...Google...and other references...

Is God Right to say the whole world is decieved?

Yep...
Only God can make perfect beings!...so what Are Adams and Eves trying to do here?..they think they are Gods...Just like it was told them by the demons in their heads..to know both Good and Evil and be like God...
But they aren't are they?

1. Adam The first one...Perfect
2. The splitted Adam to make Adam, and Eve, his female helper before being decieved by the demonica...Perfect.
3. Jesus...also Perfect,,,
4. all those who have turned , Listened, and fulfilled the word of God...found worthy enough!

Anything else is just wrong!...But it can be righted through Jesus...and or the Wedlock...which was holy...or it used to be..."only for Man and Woman under oath to God"...that they may bring a sinless soul into the Earth to preform the right of passage back into life (by being sinless, and putting something back where it belongs)...Which has not Yet happened?...or has it?, because they do not DO the will nor fulfill the words OF GOD>They Live in death constantly....and the only way out, is the way in, backwards!....and they will not let you put it back at all..(prohibition) ...to keep you here in sin with them!

Forgive them?...Well that is what Jesus says...and don't kill em...because murder is a sin...So..that solves that mystery...gotta get out of it...and the only way out is by following Jesus the Christ!..who leads us to the commandments of God, and the Restoration of Eden in likeness...etc
SO that is it in a nut shell....Hope it helps.

Last edited by Sir Les; 01-13-2010 at 11:05 PM..
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Les View Post
From My Study of the Bible...In the begining God created Adam, And Adam was in Eden tending and keeping it well......Adam saw other creaters with mates...and Adam was alone in this regard, So God caused a great sleep to come over him, And God spilt him into two parts...One male, One Female...

Now how does this happen?....Both male and female gender are in one body....Could be the solution to the first degree.

The first Adam could be a Hermaphrodite....and this DNA is in Male and Female DNA>

Now When this was done...they were told this and that, which they did not adhere to...And God kicked them out of the Garden , into Death.

And in Death they multipied greatly...and had all kinds of Abomonations through their constant inbreeding and mixing of bloodlines...over and over....doing everything but what God asked us to do, to get out of it....

So you have all the info as public domain...Google...and other references...

Is God Right to say the whole world is decieved?

Yep...
Only God can make perfect beings!...so what Are Adams and Eves trying to do here?..they think they are Gods...Just like it was told them by the demons in their heads..to know both Good and Evil and be like God...
But they aren't are they?

1. Adam The first one...Perfect
2. The splitted Adam to make Adam, and Eve, his female helper before being decieved by the demonica...Perfect.
3. Jesus...also Perfect,,,
4. all those who have turned , Listened, and fulfilled the word of God...found worthy enough!

Anything else is just wrong!...But it can be righted through Jesus...and or the Wedlock...which was holy...or it used to be..."only for Man and Woman under oath to God"...that they may bring a sinless soul into the Earth to preform the right of passage back into life (by being sinless, and putting something back where it belongs)...Which has not Yet happened?...or has it?, because they do not DO the will nor fulfill the words OF GOD>They Live in death constantly....and the only way out, is the way in, backwards!....and they will not let you put it back at all..(prohibition) ...to keep you here in sin with them!

SO that is it in a nut shell....Hope it helps.

so les , now ummm, huh? sooooooooo anyway lets just say for arguments sake , its all those bad people ( back in the day) its all their fault right? so are hermaprhodites " damned if they do , damned if they dont? in other words becuz what others did , are they just kinda stuck and arent supposed to go to "heaven" can a hermaphrodite have sexual relations or a relationship in general with another hermaphrodite and " get saved" what about me? i was born a male, but my mom took medications that caused this ( being born male) and i have since the age of what i call " recognition" around 7 years of age or so, i have mentally identified as a female, and once i found out about things that were kept from me ( by the way my parents have not been totally honest about my birth and anything that happened before or directly after even to this day! my records were destroyed except for bits and pieces! , bottom line i have to say , being born and raised a southern baptist , being guilted into believing so many things ( kinda like the inquisition!) i am beginning to think that religion , being man made and seemingly with many, many things that when examined make intelligent people doubt much of it, i am to be honest in full fledged spritual upheaval at this very moment , and due to being open minded as i am, and being affected by something such as being transgendered , it makes you question everything, i think i do beleve in an higher power , but like Bono said, my God isnt short of cash mister, and also, being that i am seeing religion more and more as a real convenient way to "keep people between the ditches" to coin an east texas euphamism, in other words after studying theology, history, and biology too, i have to say that we probably did come from monkees, and they came from fish, and they came from single celled creatures, and that is kinda a proven fact dontcha think? maybe God caused the big bang bvt its awfully narcissistic of us to think that we are the only intelligent life in a universe of such awesomly large magnitude and odds are we ( earthlings) will probably find signs of , or just plain make contact with intellgent life on other planets within the next 100 years! i wonder what the theologians of that time will have to say about that seeing as how they will probably have an answer for the origins of the universe as well and it may not even have as much to do with "adam and eve" as we thought it did!, yep , its that kinda party( pwetty perpwexing stuff said elmer fudd!!!) lol
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellisuzanne View Post
so les , now ummm, huh? sooooooooo anyway lets just say for arguments sake , its all those bad people ( back in the day) its all their fault right? so are hermaprhodites " damned if they do , damned if they dont? in other words becuz what others did , are they just kinda stuck and arent supposed to go to "heaven" can a hermaphrodite have sexual relations or a relationship in general with another hermaphrodite and " get saved" what about me? i was born a male, but my mom took medications that caused this ( being born male) and i have since the age of what i call " recognition" around 7 years of age or so, i have mentally identified as a female, and once i found out about things that were kept from me ( by the way my parents have not been totally honest about my birth and anything that happened before or directly after even to this day! my records were destroyed except for bits and pieces! , bottom line i have to say , being born and raised a southern baptist , being guilted into believing so many things ( kinda like the inquisition!) i am beginning to think that religion , being man made and seemingly with many, many things that when examined make intelligent people doubt much of it, i am to be honest in full fledged spritual upheaval at this very moment , and due to being open minded as i am, and being affected by something such as being transgendered , it makes you question everything, i think i do beleve in an higher power , but like Bono said, my God isnt short of cash mister, and also, being that i am seeing religion more and more as a real convenient way to "keep people between the ditches" to coin an east texas euphamism, in other words after studying theology, history, and biology too, i have to say that we probably did come from monkees, and they came from fish, and they came from single celled creatures, and that is kinda a proven fact dontcha think? maybe God caused the big bang bvt its awfully narcissistic of us to think that we are the only intelligent life in a universe of such awesomly large magnitude and odds are we ( earthlings) will probably find signs of , or just plain make contact with intellgent life on other planets within the next 100 years! i wonder what the theologians of that time will have to say about that seeing as how they will probably have an answer for the origins of the universe as well and it may not even have as much to do with "adam and eve" as we thought it did!, yep , its that kinda party( pwetty perpwexing stuff said elmer fudd!!!) lol

Where does it say Hermaphrodites are dammed?
I think that God made them first...to hide their gender so they could be controlled better.
And over time, God made the split...so he would have a helper and a friend to be with in the Garden of Eden...which God made...
And it went haywire because of something leading them astray...As it is said in the Bible...they took something, they touched something, they did something...they acted in violation of God's word....

And God Knew what they did...And because God told them before hand not to touch or eat of this Tree of knowledge...They created their fait...which was Death....and then God made Death...a different place...and God moved them out of the Garden of Eden...and into Death...and said it is because of you it is like this...Till the soil, sow the seeds, restore it in likeness...be sinless...repent...and be forgiven eventually...

Are we listenings?

So does it matter our gender?
Well Yes it does...God sent male and female into this death trap...God wants to save all...But not all want to be saved!

And so the circle of life and death continue...more death we make in war, and murder, and living in SIn and wickedness...the more sin we have, the more punishment we get.....the longer we will be in death...

Atleast that is what I get out of My Bible...the second death...something about fire season just doesn't sit right in my reality...as it is.

Bad people are expressly stated in the Revelations of John 21:7-9

God loves the sinner, but not the sin!

Sexual ludness is aborant behavior!

Keep yourselves from IDols!

My father smoked ciggerettes..and when I was young, My father would tell me to take his Butt of the ciggerette, and flush it down the toilet...
I would take it and go to the bathroom, and puff on it before flushing it away.
I soon after those days, became a smoker like my Father...
Different brand...Do I honour him by doing this?

Now I'm many years past those days...and My doctor is telling me to stop smoking...
Its a mental thing, but I like smoking..even though I know it is not Good for me.
And the Doctor said to me, when your ready, You'll stop...or you won't...what is important is that you do not harm anyone else...

Now what about my family?....Would It hurt them if I died from smoking illness?
Then it is in my best interest to stop!

Now about being Gay or lesbian or any other gender type...There are very real STD's out for lud and unclean behavior...and putting a rubber on isn't the answer..so it continues..Stop doing it...because when you do get ill...think of those who you will hurt...and if untreated, and unidentified..those you spread it to unknowingly or knowingly to, also are hurt by it.

That would address the commandment "Do onto others as you would have done onto you"

God is the father or originator of life...We are not all where we belong...this is not EDEN...it can be...But it is not!
ANd Because Satan is here....We need to get out of it, or make the right change in it...DEATH...back into life eternal.. could it be so simple as to just putting something back and saying sorry and alighning to the one who made us?....YES it Could!

So it is best to be a virgin....and do as God has asked...Tend and keep the Garden, put everything back where it belongs...say sorry...and be reborn into the right place...the place God and Christ prepared for us...and the only way out, Is through Jesus Christ...And God....Eden in likeness, Edens Multiplied...Cosign counter sign...Like signs attract!...So Eden will come, or God will Come, Or Jesus will COme...and then peace, health, and happiness...

No other way!

So that should clear things up...a bit....best to be a virgin!...it is way safer all the way around the table.

If we came from Monkeys...then Over time that DNA would present itself in a woman bringing a monkey out of her womb...and in the same regard...a monkey would bring a human out of its womb...over time!
Because that is the way DNA works!...mixing it by inbreeding, releases recessive genes, and vise versa for the domanate genes...and the junk dna would no longer be junk dna...So these things would appear readily over time.
Same with the amiba...it would have to have the dna init to make other things...and that has not been substansiated yet..So I do not believe in Evolution!..because there is not enough code in Human DNA to validate Evolution from the amiba to us.

Because these things/Ideals have been omitted, Hiden, or falsely brought into the genome of humankind..in early days.Nephilim and breading with animals....Noah, and by God had to wipe them out, because they were polluting the perfection God made in Humankind.
So to save some...clean and unclean...And the few good humans left...and start over...But in keeping them...God did not trust any to return to Eden Yet...So he kept them in Death...and awaitted his Son...the righteous one Jesus to come out of a bloodline, and mixing...so it was clean enough to bring forth a sinless soul...worthy enough to restore the plant to its rightful place, and reverse the curse of death for himself...and to show all those who saw,, and knew him how to do it....

Is that not the story?

Think about it....Jesus did not have any sex!..he just did what God asked...all of it!...out of the old testement...he was a rabbi after all...

There is intelligent life right here on Earth living with us....And what are we doing to them living things with us as our neighbours...polluting the planet...and all the wars, and nuclear testing....junk piles of garbage and toxic swills on the face of the earth...for dollars and cents no doubt?

If any aliens were out there looking in on us...I don't think they would think too highly of Humankind right about now....

I know I don't!

Last edited by Sir Les; 01-14-2010 at 01:48 AM..
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned/Off topic


But back to hermaphrodites and the notion that it is some "choice"- well, logistically speaking I digress, it is not a choice that anyone would ever make as a conscious human being, obviously. And irregardless of the body parts, and which gender part is more prevalent than the other- there is very often gender confusion, which can make life very, very difficult. Whatever choice they make insofar as what gender they want to live life as is for THEM to make, not the parents nor anyone else, and any surgery needed or wanted are up to the individual to have- if they even want it. It would be ideal if they were completely happy enough being "different" and, as well, found a person to love them exactly the way they were. We're all "different" in our own ways, it's just that physical abnormalities make it so that some do not have the same choices that others- those without said physical aberrations- are blessed to have.

Last edited by june 7th; 01-15-2010 at 08:32 AM..
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by helios666 View Post
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But back to hermaphrodites and the notion that it is some "choice"- well, logistically speaking I digress, it is not a choice that anyone would ever make as a conscious human being, obviously. And irregardless of the body parts, and which gender part is more prevalent than the other- there is very often gender confusion, which can make life very, very difficult. Whatever choice they make insofar as what gender they want to live life as is for THEM to make, not the parents nor anyone else, and any surgery needed or wanted are up to the individual to have- if they even want it. It would be ideal if they were completely happy enough being "different" and, as well, found a person to love them exactly the way they were. We're all "different" in our own ways, it's just that physical abnormalities make it so that some do not have the same choices that others- those without said physical aberrations- are blessed to have.
I happen to disagree strongly to the idea that life must be some personal martydom to progress spiritually that you appear to endorse above, or that someone born with genetalia different from the "norm" somehow inherently suffer.

Any suffering people labor under comes directly from those who consider themselves "normal".

Last edited by june 7th; 01-15-2010 at 08:33 AM..
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
I happen to disagree strongly to the idea that life must be some personal martydom to progress spiritually that you appear to endorse above, or that someone born with genetalia different from the "norm" somehow inherently suffer.

Any suffering people labor under comes directly from those who consider themselves "normal".



you cnntradicted yourself, you said that there wasnt inherent suffering yet you said that the suffering they labor under comes directly from "normal" people, right, but they do suffer, and i do suffer because of biggotry, ignorrance, and people seemingly like yourself who like to make blanket statements such as you just did! so why dont i do such a thing , ok, i will , people who dont have facts yet quote, and speak of things they have no clue about are wrong and in general ignorrant themselves, yet its possible that some arent............( i could keep going but i feel as though i am wasting precious time , why i could be out there getting called maam and sir all in the same moment, or getting hit on by a guy and then when someone tells him i am or they dont think i am what he thinks i am , then he gets ( or could get) violent, and all cuz i look better in a skirt and heels, or jeans, or shorts or my hair is nicer than the girl who got jealous and told him that !!! well, that was way too much information but so is alot that is on here, just know that when you say someone doesnt suffer, or deal with things and you have no clue you might get ripped a new one sometimes! have a great day sir?
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:36 AM
 
4,529 posts, read 4,741,080 times
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Originally Posted by kellisuzanne View Post
you cnntradicted yourself, you said that there wasnt inherent suffering yet you said that the suffering they labor under comes directly from "normal" people, right, but they do suffer, and i do suffer because of biggotry, ignorrance, and people seemingly like yourself who like to make blanket statements such as you just did! so why dont i do such a thing , ok, i will , people who dont have facts yet quote, and speak of things they have no clue about are wrong and in general ignorrant themselves, yet its possible that some arent............( i could keep going but i feel as though i am wasting precious time , why i could be out there getting called maam and sir all in the same moment, or getting hit on by a guy and then when someone tells him i am or they dont think i am what he thinks i am , then he gets ( or could get) violent, and all cuz i look better in a skirt and heels, or jeans, or shorts or my hair is nicer than the girl who got jealous and told him that !!! well, that was way too much information but so is alot that is on here, just know that when you say someone doesnt suffer, or deal with things and you have no clue you might get ripped a new one sometimes! have a great day sir?
I appearently made myself unclear, not contradictory, and you are much too quick to jump on someone who counsels people who society calls "different".

Anyone born with "abnormalties" (I consider whatever way someone is born is perfectly normal) does not suffer merely due to said concerns, unless said concerns causes them physical pain in some manner such as internal organs impinging on others.

Suffering comes from outside sources, not the person themselves. It comes from, as you said, bigotry, fear, misunderstanding, even challenges to the bigot's sexual self-identity. being born "different" is not the inherent casue of suffering, said suffering comes from outside sources, not the person themselves.

Clear now?
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