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Old 02-19-2009, 01:19 PM
 
30 posts, read 43,606 times
Reputation: 19

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
It's not difficult to be able to discern right actions from wrong actions.

If you can't do that without a deity involved, then I submit that those who do not believe in deities, yet still do the right things, are on a far higher plane of existence and enlightenment than you are.
Good, you used the word "enlightenment"

By the way, I don"t worship any dieties but I do believe there are forces in this universe which we know little about.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,038,211 times
Reputation: 4273
That there is a God who cares who you sleep with, how you sleep with them, what you eat, what kind of shoes you are supposed to wear on a certain day, what you wear in certain buildings, what you don't wear in certain buildings, whether reading certain books can open up a path for 'demons', that he created the Earth six-thousand years ago and human beings are the product of a dust storm and a carcass, that a flood wiped out all of the animal and plant life on the planet about four thousand years ago (and is also responsible for the Grand Canyon), that hates scientific progression, that cares whether you drink alcohol, who also cares if you dance or 'shake your booty', whether Ouija boards and Magic Eight Balls also open up to this demonic world, that feels as though Pokemon is evil, that also involves himself with politics, that also uses the planet Earth as his personal magnifying glass to torture his little 'ants' whenever they misbehave by throwing hurricanes and wildfires at them, that sat back for roughly a hundred-fifty thousand years as man perished and almost became extinct without doing a damn thing until he decided to reveal himself roughly five or six-thousand years to a bunch of Bronze Age goat herders who were illiterate and obsessed with astrology, that this God loves and cares for people, gives them free will, intervenes when he feels like it and watches his 'ants' suffer when he doesn't (some free will?!), hates run-on sentences such as this one, and most of all, what annoys me the most, is this grand idea that one day he is going to come back, make everyone disappear like a David Copperfield illusion, and the only way I'm going to get to disappear into heaven like everyone else is if I sacrifice all of my common sense, accept everything that I have written about above as being the truth, and accept a homicidal, impotent, celestial dictator of the skies into my heart.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:33 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,844,964 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcferry View Post
You obviously do have an imaginary friend that tells you NOT to do those things. Where does the feeling that it's wrong come from?
No, what tells me not to do those things is not an imaginary friend, but rather intuition, insight and conscience.

And all I really need to know I learned in kindergarten.

Quote:
All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sand pile at school.
These are the things I learned:
Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.
Take a nap every afternoon.
When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.
Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.
Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.
And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world it would be if we all - the whole world - had cookies and milk at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.

And it is still true, no matter how old you are, when you go out in the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,813,795 times
Reputation: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
Atheism has no "system of principles for guidance in practical affairs", so you're still incorrect. As far as spending time here, it's amusing like a train wreck. When I'm not stuck in front of a computer, I don't pay a bit of attention to people like you.
So are you saying that an athiest can't possibly have any principles? Why does one need a god or religion to be a practical principled person?
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
4,349 posts, read 6,486,595 times
Reputation: 7265
James Haught addressed this same question. Here is a short list of his comments.

1- Millions of Hindus pray over a statue of the penis of shiva. I don’t see any value in that. Do You?
2- Mormons think Jesus came to America. I don’t think so, how about you?
3- Santeria’s kill dogs, goats, chickens and other animals for their god. Do you think this is acceptable or sane?
4- Muslim suicide bombers think they will go direct to heaven with lots of virgins. Get real; I wouldn’t have believed that even as a teenager.
5- Unification church members think Jesus came to Sun Myung Moon and told him to convert everyone to Moonies. This was prior to the tax evasion problems.
6- Jehovah witnesses are waiting for 144,000 of their followers to be lifted to heaven. The rest of us will have to stay here on earth. I don’t buy it how about you?
7- Aztecs would skin their virgins and cut the heart out of their men as a gift to a feathered snake. Oh I forgot the snake was invisible too. I find the reality of this to be hard to accept and a waste of virgins to boot.
8- Catholics are taught the communion wafer and wine will turn into the actual literal flesh and blood of Jesus during the chants and bell ringing. How can any educated person buy into this bull?
9- The Bible says if you work on Sunday you must be killed. Isn’t that the same day preachers do their sales pitch from the church. Sure looks like a job and working on Sunday to me.
10- Millions of Pentecostals claim to talk in tongues; they think it is the Holy Ghost. Funny no one else understands them. I think it is a form of mental illness.
11- Scientologists think we all came from another planet. Enough said there.
12- Some Christians think you need to follow the bible (Mark 16:18) and pick up snakes. Keeps the medical center in business, but it is what the Bible said to do. Do you think it is right?
13- I can’t forget the Taiping Rebellion in the mid 1800. Here a Christian convert in China had a vision and was told he was the younger brother of Jesus. He raised and army and killed 20,000,000 people in the name of “god” Looks like he learned the true Christianity at it best.

When you just review this short list can you actually say you don’t have doubts about religion, god, or any faith? I personally don’t know many intelligent people who don’t have major questions about religion.

Last edited by cncracer; 02-19-2009 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,813,795 times
Reputation: 701
Wow! I just read GCSTroop's post and that about sums it up! But what really bothers me is 1: Catholics still refer to Mary as the virgin Mary...well she did get married ya know.....2: God supposedly created us, loves us soooo much that he sent his "son" or "self" to die on a cross so that we don't have to burn in hell for being "bad" when he's the one who put the "devil" here to tempt us to be "bad" in the first place! 3: The shedding of blood is "required" to cover sin....that is so sadistic and sick....4: God may or may not be 1 or 3 indivual beings.... 5: OT god and NT god are the same.....after all god never changes!!! BUUUUT OT god was bloodthirsty and mean and NT god was loving and kind.....HUH????
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,489 posts, read 1,272,594 times
Reputation: 1890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
The belief that I have to be saved, I'm still trying to figure out "saved from what", I need to saved from those professing I need to be saved.
You've nailed (if you'll pardon the obvious pun) it in one sentance. We don't need to be "saved". When you think of all the angst the Christians create over the need to be saved from hell fire.....it's a tragedy.

We're all "saved" already by our creator. Why in the world someone would lovingly create us with the need to be saved from a horrible fate that according to the bibe most are destined find at the end of their life defies logic not to mention common decency.

That's not to say that those who live a terrible life and spend their time on earth hurting others and trampling over everyone else may not have to account for all that bad living....but there will always be another chance for you to see the "light" and work through the error of your ways.
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,397,088 times
Reputation: 5442
The one belief that most religions seem to share that I find the least realistic is the creation myth. There's a great number of them out there and for myself it's a dead giveaway that all of these religions are false because these creation myths are so preposterous. The story of Adam and Eve and the six days of creation in the Christian religion are just as far fetched as the mythology of any other culture or religion. When the foundation belief that is supposed to explain how the universe and human beings came into existence in the first place is something that is impossible then why should we believe any of the rest of it?
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:23 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 4,147,913 times
Reputation: 1232
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
So are you saying that an athiest can't possibly have any principles? Why does one need a god or religion to be a practical principled person?
That is absolutely NOT what I'm saying. Perhaps I need to reword it in order for you to understand what I meant...let's try again.

Atheism has no system of beliefs, no set standard of principles, no "rulebook" if you will. This doesn't mean that each individual atheist doesn't have a personal set of standards by which they function; no, it only means that you cannot make a sweeping generalization about the principles of a group of atheists, because chances are they are not all going to be exactly the same.
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:52 PM
 
37,480 posts, read 25,224,572 times
Reputation: 5853
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
That there is a God who cares who you sleep with, how you sleep with them, what you eat, what kind of shoes you are supposed to wear on a certain day, what you wear in certain buildings, what you don't wear in certain buildings, whether reading certain books can open up a path for 'demons', that he created the Earth six-thousand years ago and human beings are the product of a dust storm and a carcass, that a flood wiped out all of the animal and plant life on the planet about four thousand years ago (and is also responsible for the Grand Canyon), that hates scientific progression, that cares whether you drink alcohol, who also cares if you dance or 'shake your booty', whether Ouija boards and Magic Eight Balls also open up to this demonic world, that feels as though Pokemon is evil, that also involves himself with politics, that also uses the planet Earth as his personal magnifying glass to torture his little 'ants' whenever they misbehave by throwing hurricanes and wildfires at them, that sat back for roughly a hundred-fifty thousand years as man perished and almost became extinct without doing a damn thing until he decided to reveal himself roughly five or six-thousand years to a bunch of Bronze Age goat herders who were illiterate and obsessed with astrology, that this God loves and cares for people, gives them free will, intervenes when he feels like it and watches his 'ants' suffer when he doesn't (some free will?!), hates run-on sentences such as this one, and most of all, what annoys me the most, is this grand idea that one day he is going to come back, make everyone disappear like a David Copperfield illusion, and the only way I'm going to get to disappear into heaven like everyone else is if I sacrifice all of my common sense, accept everything that I have written about above as being the truth, and accept a homicidal, impotent, celestial dictator of the skies into my heart.
So Troop . . . how do you really feel? You are allowing the ridiculous attributions and beliefs of others to determine whether or not there is a purpose to your existence or not and eschewing any real attempts to find out? We come into this world alone and we will leave it alone. We are a completely unique entity in this infinite universe that will never exist again. WE are ultimately responsible for what we make of it . . . what purpose we discern for it . . . and whether or not there IS any purpose at all.
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