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View Poll Results: Does God change?
No, He is the Lord, and changes not. 24 51.06%
Obviously! And it's not sacrilegious to say so either. 4 8.51%
God is the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and may His Noodly Self never change. Fettuccini. 16 34.04%
Yes, and about time too. Time for Holy Tide with color safe bleach! 3 6.38%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-26-2009, 06:34 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,341,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
Well if the Bible is so danged important you'd have thought that God would make it quite a bit easier to understand for the common person, don't you?

Why shouldn't God excuse sin? I mean, we are born into a sin nature, right? How are we responsible for that? Or maybe, just perhaps, should God, the Creator, be responsible for His creation?

So if God is all knowing He should know beforehand what anyone at anytime is going to do and know if He would need to forgive, or punish, or whatever. Why would an all-knowing Being ever need to change His/Her Mind?
God can't excuse sin because, sin is opposite from His nature. God does give us help to over come sin, and that help is the Holy Spirit. But there are so many people that don't want Him or refuse to come to God for help. If people refuse to live up to His standard, then that is there fault.

There is a spiritual battle between satan and God and the person can choose which side they want to be on. To be honest it sounds like you have a problem with God, or some unresolved issues with Him. God is God and can do what ever He likes, if you have a problem with that, then you need to take that up with Him.

God tells in His word what will happen to the person if they live for Him, and what will happen if they don't live for Him. So, the person can't get mad at God, if they sin against Him, and they are punished. That is foolish when the person already know the consequences. The problem is with people who just want to live ungodly and do what ever they want to do and that is fine, but when they do, then they wine and say that God is not being fair, when He already told them what was going to happen.

God should not excuse sin because He is God, and to sin, is not His nature. If a person wants to sin, then that is there problem, but their will be a consequence. God is being responsible for us. He died in our place. If He did not, we would never have a relationship with Him, and we would be in Hell. God did not leave us here alone, He gives believers His spirit. My question is Do you have His Spirit? If not then I can understand why you are having a difficult time. God's spirit helps you understand God and truth.

Actually the bible is so simple that children can understand it. If a person is not understanding His word, then they don't have His Spirit, or they are refusing to believe the truth, or questioning the Creator. I don't see how the bible is hard, it make perfect since to me, so I don't understand why you are saying that the bible is so hard to understand.

If you don't mind me saying that if you read the bible, then you will know why God can't excuse sin and never will. If you don't believe in the bible, then I'm sorry for you.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 691,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
God can't excuse sin because, sin is opposite from His nature. God does give us help to over come sin, and that help is the Holy Spirit. But there are so many people that don't want Him or refuse to come to God for help. If people refuse to live up to His standard, then that is there fault.
Why do you think it is that some don't want Him? Maybe a lack of understanding in this complex world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
There is a spiritual battle between satan and God and the person can choose which side they want to be on.
It's not quite as black and white as that, is it? I doubt that if you ask most atheists if they are choosing to be on Satan's side that they would take you seriously at all. They aren't choosing that. They simply don't believe in the existence of God without physical proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
To be honest it sounds like you have a problem with God, or some unresolved issues with Him. God is God and can do what ever He likes, if you have a problem with that, then you need to take that up with Him.
Yes, God can certainly do whatever He likes, no one is disputing that. I can say that I have issues with God, but I do love Him, while often shaking my fist at Him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
God tells in His word what will happen to the person if they live for Him, and what will happen if they don't live for Him. So, the person can't get mad at God, if they sin against Him, and they are punished. That is foolish when the person already know the consequences. The problem is with people who just want to live ungodly and do what ever they want to do and that is fine, but when they do, then they wine and say that God is not being fair, when He already told them what was going to happen.
Told them where? In the Bible? But how are they to know that everything in there is true, or which parts, considering how Christians disagree over the whole thing and how it's translated, different doctrines, ect. anyway? Different sect, say Catholics vs. Orthodox vs. Protestants have different books of the Bible, different translations.

If it were that important, why didn't or doesn't God make it absolutely crystal clear? I mean, dip down and say "Hay! See this? I'm God! Do this and this, and don't do that and that, you got it?" Now, THAT would be crystal clear. THAT would giving a true choice to be made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
My question is Do you have His Spirit? If not then I can understand why you are having a difficult time. God's spirit helps you understand God and truth.
Believe it or not, I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Actually the bible is so simple that children can understand it. If a person is not understanding His word, then they don't have His Spirit, or they are refusing to believe the truth, or questioning the Creator. I don't see how the bible is hard, it make perfect since to me, so I don't understand why you are saying that the bible is so hard to understand.
The Bible is not at all simple, or Christians would have 1 denomination and belief system. Yet there are hundreds, if not thousands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
If you don't mind me saying that if you read the bible, then you will know why God can't excuse sin and never will. If you don't believe in the bible, then I'm sorry for you.
Shawn, I've studied the Bible more than you would believe.

Last edited by daddythreepointoh; 02-26-2009 at 09:25 PM.. Reason: editing
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:05 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,341,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
Why do you think it is that some don't want Him? Maybe a lack of understanding in this complex world?



It's not quite as black and white as that, is it? I doubt that if you ask most atheists if they are choosing to be on Satan's side that they would take you seriously at all. They aren't choosing that. They simply don't believe in the existence of God without physical proof.



Yes, God can certainly do whatever He likes, no one is disputing that. I can say that I have issues with God, but I do love Him, while often shaking my fist at Him.



Told them where? In the Bible? But how are they to know that everything in there is true, or which parts, considering how Christians disagree over the whole thing and how it's translated, different doctrines, ect. anyway? Different sect, say Catholics vs. Orthodox vs. Protestants have different books of the Bible, different translations.

If it were that important, why didn't or doesn't God make it absolutely crystal clear? I mean, dip down and say "Hay! See this? I'm God! Do this and this, and don't do that and that, you got it?" Now, THAT would be crystal clear. THAT would giving a true choice to be made.



Believe it or not, I do.



The Bible is not at all simple, or Christians would have 1 denomination and belief system. Yet there are hundreds, if not thousands.



Shawn, I've studied the Bible more than you would believe.
I feel the reason that most Atheits who do not believe in God because of God not coming or doing what they want at a perticular time. When I first came to the Lord, He did not coming talking out of a cloud. I had to spend time with Him, and then He began to speak to me, and show me things. But there are so many people who are not willing to spend time with God. If you call President Obama and tell Him to show up on your door step, He is going to laugh in your face and probably hang up the phone, or you may never get him on the phone. But people exspect for God to come on their command, and it does not work that way. God does things on His time and not our.

I love God and spend my time in His word and spend time with Him to understand Him and His word. If you really love God you will spend time with Him to really understand His nature. God is Holy, so He can't excuse Sin. I feel if a person has a problem with that, then they have a problem with sinning or don't want to live Holy.

I don't mean to sound hasty, but why are you shaking your fist at the person who died for you and loves you? If it was not for Him, you would be dead.

God says that the bible is His Word, and He can't Lie. So, to not believe the bible would be like calling God a liar, and that is What He says. It's not about what christians say about the bible, if YOu have the Holy Spirit He will help you understand His word.

What ever issue you have with God, you need to resolve that with God. It can be a dangerous thing to have unresolved issues with God. I feel that the bible is simple. When I come to a certain scripture that I don't understand I ask my Pastor, My Teacher, or I go to God for better understanding. To me it is that simple. I have the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth and scripture.

It also sounds like you are wanting God to make decisions that are opposite from His nature. What kind of God would He be if He did that? God is perfect and sinless, so why would He allow Sin. Sin is of the devil and God has no part of it.

So, if you really love, get to know Him for who He is and learn of His nature. I feel that if you understand His nature, then you want question God on not excusing sin.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 691,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
I feel the reason that most Atheits who do not believe in God because of God not coming or doing what they want at a perticular time. When I first came to the Lord, He did not coming talking out of a cloud. I had to spend time with Him, and then He began to speak to me, and show me things. But there are so many people who are not willing to spend time with God. If you call President Obama and tell Him to show up on your door step, He is going to laugh in your face and probably hang up the phone, or you may never get him on the phone. But people exspect for God to come on their command, and it does not work that way. God does things on His time and not our.
Okay but God is invisible. Why does He expect so much from us when He does not show Himself in any overt way? Some people simply do not have the gift of faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
I love God and spend my time in His word and spend time with Him to understand Him and His word. If you really love God you will spend time with Him to really understand His nature. God is Holy, so He can't excuse Sin. I feel if a person has a problem with that, then they have a problem with sinning or don't want to live Holy.
But why wouldn't they want to live Holy? Maybe because of lack of understanding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
I don't mean to sound hasty, but why are you shaking your fist at the person who died for you and loves you? If it was not for Him, you would be dead.
And I do love Him and thank Him for that. But He also allows us to be born into quite a big mess, doesn't He, with a statistically very small chance of being "saved", right? Most go to hell, narrow is the way and few are those who find it, right? Seems kinda heartless to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
God says that the bible is His Word, and He can't Lie. So, to not believe the bible would be like calling God a liar, and that is What He says. It's not about what christians say about the bible, if you have the Holy Spirit He will help you understand His word.
Yes but which part of the Bible? Because there are books that barely missed getting voted in. Then again if you are Catholic or Orthodox you may have additional books not recognized by most Protestants. You do know that's all that it was that compiled the Bible--votes by some very politically motivated men.

I think the Bible is divinely inspired, yes, but it was written by human hands. I believe it is therefore flawed and must be read with caution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
What ever issue you have with God, you need to resolve that with God. It can be a dangerous thing to have unresolved issues with God. I feel that the bible is simple. When I come to a certain scripture that I don't understand I ask my Pastor, My Teacher, or I go to God for better understanding. To me it is that simple. I have the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth and scripture.
Well good for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
It also sounds like you are wanting God to make decisions that are opposite from His nature. What kind of God would He be if He did that? God is perfect and sinless, so why would He allow Sin. Sin is of the devil and God has no part of it.
I'm not saying allow sin, I'm saying give people a 2nd chance once they have died and seen the truth on the other side, without lies and distractions that God allows there to be in this life.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:29 AM
 
Location: God's Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post

I'm not saying allow sin, I'm saying give people a 2nd chance once they have died and seen the truth on the other side, without lies and distractions that God allows there to be in this life.
Luke 16 27-31 "Then the rich man said please Father Abraham send him to my father's home. For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them about this place of torment so they won't have to come here when they die. But Abraham said Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read their writings anytime they want to. The rich man replied, no Father Abraham, but if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will turn from their sins. But Abraham said if they won't listen to Moses and the prophets, they won't listen even if someone rises from the dead".

In this world He gives us MANY chances to see the truth without lies and distractions, but after death that's it, there are no 2nd chances after that.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 691,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Luke 16 27-31 "Then the rich man said please Father Abraham send him to my father's home. For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them about this place of torment so they won't have to come here when they die. But Abraham said Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read their writings anytime they want to. The rich man replied, no Father Abraham, but if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will turn from their sins. But Abraham said if they won't listen to Moses and the prophets, they won't listen even if someone rises from the dead".

In this world He gives us MANY chances to see the truth without lies and distractions, but after death that's it, there are no 2nd chances after that.
See, that story bugs me. So the prophets had "warned" them, some "writings" had warned them. Weren't there all sorts of prophets and "divine" writings around at that time, as there are now? Pretty easy in this world to write all that off as yet some more crazy babbling false prophets and so-called revelations from God, right? There are and were plenty of lies and distractions, or why else didn't and doesn't everyone in the world see the truth and follow it?

That's the thing. Obviously, for the vast majority of people, if you showed them that hell is absolutely real and horrific, that God and Satan are REALLY REAL, I mean see, smell, hear them physically...most people would do the right thing, or make the right choice! But we aren't given that chance, or that choice, not really. Everything must be accepted on blind faith, which I understand the Bible says is a gift from God in the first place. If God gave everyone that gift, then why don't all believe? Obviously He didn't. So how is it fair that some get saved and some don't?

I just can't agree with your premise. God give no one on this planet a real, direct choice. He gives us a life, and a world full of many ways and things and people and thoughts and cultures and religions and upbringings and whatever else. Some people grow up in tribes in the middle of the Amazon or Africa and don't know a dang thing about God as we know Him, or Jesus. You're telling me God created them just so they can live, die, and then go to hell forever?
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,341,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
Okay but God is invisible. Why does He expect so much from us when He does not show Himself in any overt way? Some people simply do not have the gift of faith.



But why wouldn't they want to live Holy? Maybe because of lack of understanding?



And I do love Him and thank Him for that. But He also allows us to be born into quite a big mess, doesn't He, with a statistically very small chance of being "saved", right? Most go to hell, narrow is the way and few are those who find it, right? Seems kinda heartless to me.



Yes but which part of the Bible? Because there are books that barely missed getting voted in. Then again if you are Catholic or Orthodox you may have additional books not recognized by most Protestants. You do know that's all that it was that compiled the Bible--votes by some very politically motivated men.

I think the Bible is divinely inspired, yes, but it was written by human hands. I believe it is therefore flawed and must be read with caution.



Well good for you.



I'm not saying allow sin, I'm saying give people a 2nd chance once they have died and seen the truth on the other side, without lies and distractions that God allows there to be in this life.
God has shown Himself and still does to this day. Some don't have the gift of faith because, God says you have not because you ask not. Some people refuse to go the the person that has the faith.

Most people who choose to not live holy is not for lack of understanding, it is because they don't want to live holy. People know and understand what living holy is. That is why they have a problem with it. Living holy means living God's way, and dieing to self, and people don't like that.

I don't feel that we have a small chance of being saved. Maybe you feel that you have a small chance, but I know that If I live the way that God tells me to live then I will be in Heaven with Him. I also know that if I refuse to live up to His standards and turn away from Him then I will go to Hell. Plain and simple, not hard to understand. God gives us His spirit for us to live by. The question is will people allow God's spirit to guide them. If not then they are just hurting themselfs.

I'm not perfect or better than anyone else. I can go to Hell just like you or anyone else. But I also know that If I live for God and resist satan, and live a life exceptable in his eyes, then I will be in Heaven. Does not seem heartless to me. Are you having a hard time, because you feel that you are unable to stay on the narrow path? God's word is clear and simple, just stick to it. If you have problems, I encourage you to talk with God about it.

God does give people chance after chance after chance. How many chances have God given you and me. Probably over a hundred and counting. So, if the person does not take God serious while here on earth, then it will be to late in the grave.

Actually the Holy Spirit is the author of the bible, written by human hands. If you have the Holy Spirit, which you say that you do, then He will direct you in the bible.

Honestly, the questions that you have and problems that you have with God, can only be resolved by going and talking with Him. It seems that you have a deep unresloved issue with Him. I also encourage you if you are in church to sit under the teaching of a Pastor and teachers.
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:00 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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Yes, but......only when he wets his diapers!
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:14 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,341,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
See, that story bugs me. So the prophets had "warned" them, some "writings" had warned them. Weren't there all sorts of prophets and "divine" writings around at that time, as there are now? Pretty easy in this world to write all that off as yet some more crazy babbling false prophets and so-called revelations from God, right? There are and were plenty of lies and distractions, or why else didn't and doesn't everyone in the world see the truth and follow it?

That's the thing. Obviously, for the vast majority of people, if you showed them that hell is absolutely real and horrific, that God and Satan are REALLY REAL, I mean see, smell, hear them physically...most people would do the right thing, or make the right choice! But we aren't given that chance, or that choice, not really. Everything must be accepted on blind faith, which I understand the Bible says is a gift from God in the first place. If God gave everyone that gift, then why don't all believe? Obviously He didn't. So how is it fair that some get saved and some don't?

I just can't agree with your premise. God give no one on this planet a real, direct choice. He gives us a life, and a world full of many ways and things and people and thoughts and cultures and religions and upbringings and whatever else. Some people grow up in tribes in the middle of the Amazon or Africa and don't know a dang thing about God as we know Him, or Jesus. You're telling me God created them just so they can live, die, and then go to hell forever?
The reason everyone does not see the truth in the world because satan is the prince of the air here on earth. Meaning he is ruling here on earth and he and his demons have blinded people to the truth. During the times that we read about the people in the bible, they did not have the bible as we do today. They only had prophets, and God's word, Him speaking. God spoke to some personally, and used His prophet and priest.

You said that most have not have the chance to experience God and demons. Well, I have and most out their that are open to God have experienced those things to know that they exist. There are people that see demons, and have seen God in some type of form. I have not seen God, but I have seen angels, and have heard God's voice audibly as well as other things. God gives all of us his gifts, but everyone does not except His gift.

And yes you are right that there are people who live in Africa who do not know about God. But if you go to Africa, there faith is stronger than ours. I know because my church has a church in Afria. God sends us, His people to everyone in the world to preach the Gospel to everyone.

So, if someone is in a cave and does not know about God. Either God will speaks to them Himself, or He will send someone to them, or any part of the world.

Why do you doubt God so much?
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 691,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
The reason everyone does not see the truth in the world because satan is the prince of the air here on earth. Meaning he is ruling here on earth and he and his demons have blinded people to the truth. During the times that we read about the people in the bible, they did not have the bible as we do today. They only had prophets, and God's word, Him speaking. God spoke to some personally, and used His prophet and priest.

You said that most have not have the chance to experience God and demons. Well, I have and most out their that are open to God have experienced those things to know that they exist. There are people that see demons, and have seen God in some type of form. I have not seen God, but I have seen angels, and have heard God's voice audibly as well as other things. God gives all of us his gifts, but everyone does not except His gift.

And yes you are right that there are people who live in Africa who do not know about God. But if you go to Africa, there faith is stronger than ours. I know because my church has a church in Afria. God sends us, His people to everyone in the world to preach the Gospel to everyone.

So, if someone is in a cave and does not know about God. Either God will speaks to them Himself, or He will send someone to them, or any part of the world.

Why do you doubt God so much?
I really don't...most of the time. But I do seriously doubt the fundamentalist way of life and interpretation of the Bible.

Otherwise, this response, no offense, is full of holes. If everything you are saying is true then most people will go to Heaven, and that's just not so according to fundamental beliefs.
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