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Old 02-24-2009, 05:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
I found this to be interesting... Studying the Quran


"But let us ignore the fact that the Quran is a book dictated to scribes by a man who was only indirectly a prophet through visions from an angel of questionable character (questioned by Mohammed himself, in fact), vouched for by a woman who had never seen the angel, written by numerous secretaries on numerous odds and ends which eyewitnesses attest were not correctly gathered together, some portions eaten by animals, the rest compiled together after the only true eyewitness was already dead, thus resulting in numerous versions, almost all of which were burned by a man who was not guided by God in deciding which ones to burn, the same man who we know from eyewitnesses had already left verses out."

And another... The Different Arabic Versions of the Qur'an Koran Quran

elwill wrote in this link
http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...8-prophet.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post



this is the most important question in this issue in my openion

When Uthmaan became Khaleefah, Islaam had grown out of Arabia reaching into the far-flung areas of Byzantium and Iran. As people from new areas embraced Islam, they would learn the Qur'an from the Mujaahideen of Islam or from the traders because of whom they had found the blessing of Islam.

the Qur'an was revealed incorporating seven Huroof (versions of recitation), and different Companions had learnt it from the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). In accordance with different readings, therefore, every Companion taught the Qur'an to his disciples in accordance with that particular Huroof which they had themselves learnt from the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). In this manner, this difference in readings reached far out countries.
Until such time that people knew that the Qur'an had been revealed incorporating seven Huroof (readings) no harm was done by this difference. However, when this difference reached those far out countries, and the fact that the Qur'an had been revealed incorporating different readings was not fully publicized there, disputes among people started. Some people began to insist on their reading as correct and that of others as incorrect. On the one hand, these disputes posed the danger that people would fall into the grave error of declaring the reading of the Qur'an which have followed in uninterrupted succession as incorrect. On the other hand, there was no such standard copy available through out the Islamic world which could become the rallying authority for the entire Ummah, except, of course, the copy committed to writing by Zayd Ibne Thaabit which was there in Madeenah. Since other copies were written individually, and in them, there was no provision to incorporate all the readings, therefore, the only reliable method to resolve these disputes was that copies which incorporate all valid readings be spread out all over the Islaamic world, and then, by seeing them it could be decided as to which reading is correct and which is incorrect. Uthmaan accomplished this feat during the period of his Khilaafah.
Details of this feat is given in Hadeeth narration's as follows:
Huzayfah Ibne Yamaan was engaged in jihaad on the Armenian-Azerbaijaan front. There he noticed that differences were rising among people about readings of the Qur'an. So, on his return to Madeenah, he went straight to Uthmaan and once there, he pleaded, 'O Ameer-ul Mu'mineen! Before this Ummah falls prey to differences in the Book of Allah like the Jews and Christians, you should do something about it.' Uthmaan asked, 'What is the matter?' In reply, Huzayfah said, 'I was on a jihaad mission fighting on the Armenian front. There I saw people of Syria following the reading of Ubayi Ibne Ka'b which would not be familiar to the people of Iraq, and the people of Iran following the reading of Abdullah Ibne Mas'ood which would not be familiar to the people of Syria. As a result of this, they are charging each other of being kaafirs.'
Consequently, Uthmaan gathered people together and delivered a sermon and in it he said, "You who live so close to me in Madeenah, if you can falsify each other and differ with each other in respect of the readings of the Qur'an, it is quite obvious that those who are far away from me will be indulging in falsification and disputation on a much larger scale. Therefore, let everyone get together and come up with a copy of the Qur'an following which becomes obligatory for all."

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Old 02-24-2009, 06:25 AM
 
Location: egypt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
"But the faith of Islam came with views quite different from that of the extend gospels with regards to both the end of Jesus and his nature."


Galatians 1...

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
are you wanna to say that these veses supposed to refer to quran and mohammed (pbuh) ? i don't know you intensions .

anyway according to these verses we have to know that pre_islam There existed many different Bibles during the time of the Roman Emperor, Constantine, which were widely believed in by different Christian sects in the year 312 and many of them agree with islamic view according to jesus (pbuh) . In other words, during the first 3 centuries of "Christianity" (300 years), many different canons with 100s of books/gospels combined existed! That is a lot of canons, a lot of books/gospels, and a lot of time (300 years) of different Christian religions existed.


these verses confirms that there is Gospel called Gospel of christ , and confirms that so soon the men will preach other Gospeles .

seems to me that we don't have Gospel of christ , we just have Gospel of men and someone as paul
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
are you wanna to say that these veses supposed to refer to quran and mohammed (pbuh) ? i don't know you intensions .

Yes. His story of Jesus is different than that in the NT, so it is a different gospel.

anyway according to these verses we have to know that pre_islam There existed many different Bibles during the time of the Roman Emperor, Constantine, which were widely believed in by different Christian sects in the year 312 and many of them agree with islamic view according to jesus (pbuh) . In other words, during the first 3 centuries of "Christianity" (300 years), many different canons with 100s of books/gospels combined existed! That is a lot of canons, a lot of books/gospels, and a lot of time (300 years) of different Christian religions existed.

First, where do you get this information, and second, what did they agree with Islamic views on?

these verses confirms that there is Gospel called Gospel of christ , and confirms that so soon the men will preach other Gospeles .
seems to me that we don't have Gospel of christ , we just have Gospel of men and someone as paul
These verses confirm no such thing. There are 4 gospels, written by men who were inspired by God. Just as Paul was inspired by God. Nonetheless, the gospel according to Muhammad is different, therefore, let him be accursed.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
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Quote:
.....She put her finger to her lips and pointed to the child. They asked: "How can we speak to a newborn baby?" To their total amazement, the child began to speak clearly: "I am .....

But why is this also part of the official Catechism of the Catholic Church (Vatican two)? It's not said in the same words about the flesh, or about the virgin birth. The Catechism explicitly says: St. Mary is the Incarnate Word, like God is the Word itself, she had the uniqueness of articulating that word: John:1:14: ' And the word became flesh, and made his dwelling among us and we saw his glory, the glory of the Father's only son...' What we are quibling about for the different visions of the incarnate-articulate Word is the existence of the Ego. With St. Mary there was none necessary to consider.

So the point is that the ego was referable instead to generations of man. Jesus I believe was also the son of Man. Moonsun has affirmed in the Koran exactly what John's Gospel was preaching all the time.

No problem to me.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
Jesus I believe was also the son of Man. Moonsun has affirmed in the Koran exactly what John's Gospel was preaching all the time.

No problem to me.
jesus is human
he is son of Mary
he has no father
he is called the the spirt of God
his true name sound like Iesa or Eisa or Isa
the first letter of his true name does not exist in the English litters .

and his name in arabic means the word of God or created by the word of God



the nearest litter in english is a, e or i and i think the one who translated his name to english he choose the first letter J by mistake or by translation misunderstanding

he was supposed to use the litter I or E for the first name letter of jesus name

then the true name in arabic and the translated name in english will be very close




the OP does not have the full story of Jesus but it has extractions




here is another extraction
for the full story
click http://www.islamawareness.net/Prophets/isa.html


While Mary was praying in her temple, an angel in the form of a man appeared before her. Filled with terror, she tried to flee, praying: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allah) from you, if you do fear Allah."
The angel said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son."
She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?"
He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: "That is easy for me (Allah): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allah).'" (Ch 19:18-21 Quran)
The angel's visit caused Mary great anxiety, which increased as the months went by. How could she face giving birth to a child without having a husband? Later, she felt life kicking inside her. With a heavy heart, she left the temple and went to Nazareth, the city in which she had been born where she settled in a simple farm house to avoid the public.
But fear and anxiety did not leave her. She was from a noble and pious family. Her father had not been an evil man nor was her mother an impure woman. How could she prevent tongues from wagging about her honor?
After some months, she could not bear the mental strain any longer. Burdened with a heavy womb, she left Nazareth, not knowing where to go to be away from this depressing atmosphere.
She had not gone far, when she was overtaken by the pains of childbirth. She saw down against a dry palm tree, and here she gave birth to a son. Looking at her beautiful baby, she was hurt that she had brought him into the world without a father. She exclaimed: "I wish I had died before this happened and had vanished into nothingness!"
Suddenly, she heard a voice nearby: "Grieve not, your Lord has placed a rivulet below, and shake the trunk of this tree, from which ripe dates will fall. So eat and drink and regain the strength you have lost; and be of good cheer, for what you see is the power of Allah, Who made the dry palm tree regain life, in order to provide food for you." For a while she was comforted by Allah's miracle, for it was a sure sign of her innocence and purity.
She decided to return to the city. However, her fears also returned. What was she going to tell the people? As if sharinhis mother's worry, the baby began to speak: "If you meet any person say: 'I have vowed to fast for The Beneficent and may not speak to any human today.'" With this miracle, Mary felt at ease.
As she had expected, her arrival in the city with a newborn baby in her arms aroused the curiosity of the people. They scolded her: "This is a terrible sin that you have committed." She put her finger to her lips and pointed to the child. They asked: "How can we speak to a newborn baby?" To their total amazement, the child began to speak clearly: "I am Allah's servant. Allah has given me the Book, and has made me a prophet, and has blessed me wherever I may be, and has enjoined on me prayers and alms-giving as long as I live. Allah has made me dutiful towards she who had borne me. He has not made me arrogant nor unblessed. Peace unto me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive."
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
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In that case, I believe that Vishnu is somehow the 'whole' story of the son of God.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:31 PM
 
Location: egypt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
These verses confirm no such thing. There are 4 gospels, written by men who were inspired by God. Just as Paul was inspired by God. Nonetheless, the gospel according to Muhammad is different, therefore, let him be accursed.
but it wasn't just 4 gospeles with in the first 3 centuries , beside corrupt gospele should to appear very soon according to your verses , quran revealed after 600 years

beside your verse said
"marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel"

quran not call anyone into the grace of christ .
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
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So two sins make into an affirmation of the .. some say, the HIV virus.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,791,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
but it wasn't just 4 gospeles with in the first 3 centuries , beside corrupt gospele should to appear very soon according to your verses , quran revealed after 600 years

beside your verse said
"marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel"

quran not call anyone into the grace of christ .
Exactly elwill. The Quran corrupts the grace of Christ. It is another gospel. Any gospel other that which was already preached is to be accursed. They did appear soon, and they will continue to appear until Christ returns. It doesn't matter when they appear, it matters if they contradict the true gospel, just as the Quran does.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:32 PM
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UeMnIa9Ptc
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