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Old 02-23-2009, 02:36 PM
 
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If that is so, why do we not declare in our Programme that we are atheists? Why do we not forbid Christians and other believers in God to join our Party?

The answer to this question will serve to explain the very important difference in the way the question of religion is presented by the bourgeois democrats and the Social-Democrats.

Our Programme is based entirely on the scientific, and moreover the materialist, world-outlook. An explanation of our Programme, therefore, necessarily includes an explanation of the true historical and economic roots of the religious fog. Our propaganda necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism; the publication of the appropriate scientific literature, which the autocratic feudal government has hitherto strictly forbidden and persecuted, must now form one of the fields of our Party work. We shall now probably have to follow the advice Engels once gave to the German Socialists: to translate and widely disseminate the literature of the eighteenth-century French Enlighteners and atheists.
Lenin: Socialism and Religion
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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kdbrich wrote:
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probably the same thing that gave stalin or pol pot the ability to commit all the murders in the name of atheism.
We've covered that territory before and it's simplistic to think this even had anything to do with atheism or any philosophical point of view, it was about power and nothing else. Stalin was one of the most ruthless leaders in modern times and had his own military leaders executed if he sensed the slightest threat to his own power. To be fair I also think it's simplistic to reduce most of the religious turmoil in the world to differences in religious belief. Consider Northern Ireland for example, here's another case in which religion is generally blamed for the conflict but I don't believe that's accurate. This is also about power and the segregation of Catholics and Protestants perpetuates this situation but the reason it's done is political and really has nothing to do with religious convictions at all.
I agree with the OP in the sense that religious people are being used by their leaders and one only has to look at the situation in Iraq in which muslims are killing each other by the thousands not because of ideology but because their leaders want to control as much of the nation and the economy as possible even if that means killing their fellow countrymen because they happen to belong to a different sect. Unfortunately, the people who do the killing and even give their own lives in suicide bomb attacks don't even realize they're being used.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:51 PM
 
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Well, coincidentally, I recently watched specials on both hate groups and Stalin.

I found it interesting how most of the white supremacist groups in this country proclaim their cause in the roots of Christianity. The irony in listening to them rail against Jews and non-whites when, if Jesus existed, was a non-white Jew, is pretty entertaining, yet sad. It's pretty obvious why they use Christianity to drive their cause however. It's the greatest unifying force as most people are religious, yet it allows them to distort their cause as some sort of holy war.

As for Stalin...well he was just crazy. Apparently, he was physically abused and scarred from a young age and suffered from paranoia and borderline schizophrenia.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jbird82 View Post
Well, coincidentally, I recently watched specials on both hate groups and Stalin.

I found it interesting how most of the white supremacist groups in this country proclaim their cause in the roots of Christianity. The irony in listening to them rail against Jews and non-whites when, if Jesus existed, was a non-white Jew, is pretty entertaining, yet sad. It's pretty obvious why they use Christianity to drive their cause however. It's the greatest unifying force as most people are religious, yet it allows them to distort their cause as some sort of holy war.

As for Stalin...well he was just crazy. Apparently, he was physically abused and scarred from a young age and suffered from paranoia and borderline schizophrenia.
And for Vladimir Lenin, Nikita Khrushchev, Leonid Brezhnev, Konstantin Chernenko, Yuri Andropov, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro?
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:55 PM
 
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You can list 1000 people here...it doesn't change the fact that religion has been used to justify hate crimes, holy wars, etc. That wasn't my point however. Anything can be used to unite people for a cause (good or bad).
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:10 PM
 
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One movement was mainly responsible for over 100 million deaths in the last century. I'll bet you can never guess what communicable scientific movement that was....
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
One movement was mainly responsible for over 100 million deaths in the last century. I'll bet you can never guess what communicable scientific movement that was....

Why are you addressing one subject with a completely different subject? I've already stated that I believe just about anything can be used to unite a cause...no matter how horrific it may be. What else do you want me to say? It once again doesn't change the fact that Christianity has been used as a foundation for hate groups in this country for well over 150 years.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:52 AM
 
Location: egypt
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Originally Posted by Deguire View Post
The claim is often made that religion has been the cause of much human grief from genocides to hate groups to suicide bombers. Others counter this by saying that religion is not the cause, rather, it is sick people using religion as an excuse or vehicle to express their sick intentions. In other words, the people who spout religion to back up their madness were crazy before the came into the religion.

My question is, why is religion such a conducive outlet? What does religion have or possess that gives the Phelps, Aryans, Al Quedas, Nation of Islams of the world fuel for their fires?


Thoughts?
in political world , it happens that the conflicts between two groups will back the benefits to third one
so if the third group succeed to raise the conflicts between those two , they will be the only one whom get the benefits

the religions is perfect tool which can influence on the action of it's followers , if the third group succeed to misguide the ignorants from those followers , so they found those whom will work for thier own benefits


also , not all the wars are caused of religions , sometimes it happens for ethnic reasons or for control of the lands
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
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How come we've never seen a case where a bus load of atheists are blown up by suicide bombing agnostics on the news?
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Originally Posted by jbird82 View Post
Why are you addressing one subject with a completely different subject? I've already stated that I believe just about anything can be used to unite a cause...no matter how horrific it may be. What else do you want me to say? It once again doesn't change the fact that Christianity has been used as a foundation for hate groups in this country for well over 150 years.
That is easily understandable considering all the blood and gore written in the bible. I often wonder how things would be different had the bible not been such a violent book.
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