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Old 03-09-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi, seeing the glory of God in nature does not teach us about who Jesus is and that He died and was raised to life for us. Why do we spread the good news of Christ if people can know about having a saving relationship with Him only by observing nature? We can look at nature and see God's invisible qualities, His divine nature and eternal power, realizing that He exists, giving Him the glory and honor, but we cannot know about Jesus and what it means to have a saving relationship with the Creator until we hear the message of the One who gave His life for us. God bless.
Thank you for stating the obvious, Shana.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:52 PM
 
Location: NC
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You're welcome, Katzpur. Thank you for your thoughtful posts. God bless.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:26 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,346,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi Lucidus, I am a believer that all people will eventually be reconciled to God, and I am a Christian Universalist, not Unitarian. I believe that all are reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, that He is the one and only way. All CU's do not agree on each an every things just as those of other perspectives but I do believe that what we do in this life does matter and that it isn't a matter of waiting to the last minute to come to God, although some may have this view. What does this tell me about their heart? Are they really wanting to please the Father and Jesus? Do they really understand why Jesus died for us? I believe that many will experience the severe judgments of God based on their works here in this life but I believe that this eventually leads to their restoration as God will subject all people to Himself that He may be all all. We can either come to Him today willingly and submit to His glorious purpose for our lives or we will eventually be broken to realize that we are in need of a Savior. Why waste time when we could be about doing His work like being lights in the world, learning how to put sin to death in our lives, becoming what we were created to be, reaching for the prize of the high calling of God. Why not come to our Father now and get Him to know Him today? Sin only destroys. I believe that He will come to dwell in all hearts.




I believe that many will experience hell but I don't believe that it is eternal.


The view expressed in the video is basically how I understand hell but I am not Jewish. I believe that it is only through Jesus that we can take care of our mistakes today.

A Jewish View of "Hell"




God bless.
There is no evidence in scripture that says that God will send people to Hell and then bring them into Heaven. There is no evidence in scripture that says that Hell in only temporary.

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

2 thess. 1:9

Isaiah 33:14


Eternal - without end
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen," (1 Tim. 1:17).

". . . To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" (Rev. 5:13).


Eternal Damnation
"And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever" (Rev. 19:3).

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).


Jesus said,
"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).

Jesus came so that we may have life, but everyoine want choose Christ, or go to Him.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 03-12-2009 at 07:44 PM..
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:55 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,422 posts, read 29,555,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
There is no evidence in scripture that says that God will send people to Hell and then bring them into Heaven. There is no evidence in scripture that says that Hell in only temporary.

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

2 thess. 1:9

Isaiah 33:14


Eternal - without end
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen," (1 Tim. 1:17).

". . . To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" (Rev. 5:13).


Eternal Damnation
"And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever" (Rev. 19:3).

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).


Jesus said,
"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).

Jesus came so that we may have life, but everyoine want choose Christ, or go to Him.
Great post Shawn! The Bible clearly teaches that hell is eternal, never ending torment, forever separated from God.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,962,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Romans 1:19-22 "For the truth about God is know to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God".
I hope this answers your question.

......

would you mind posting this in the "catechism 841" thread ?
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:29 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,422 posts, read 29,555,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
......

would you mind posting this in the "catechism 841" thread ?
Done.
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:31 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,411,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
There is no evidence in scripture that says that God will send people to Hell and then bring them into Heaven. There is no evidence in scripture that says that Hell in only temporary.
Hell is as temporary as death, Shawn....

And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Theos/Pur.

Quote:
Through the Son God made the whole universe, and to the Son he has ordained all creation shall ultimately belong.
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:37 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,411,509 times
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I Believe In The Restitution Of All Things

Quote:
Through the Son God made the whole universe, and to the Son he has ordained all creation shall ultimately belong.
Quote:
He has made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one head in Him.
And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will.
Dr. Arthur Tappan Pierson -The Bible & Spiritual Life-

"This view (Restitution of All) is so clearly scriptural that the only surprise is that it has not been more definitely and widely held. It adds immeasurably, both to the glory of Christ as the coming King, and the Father as the former and framer of the ages. It is the period typified by the eighth day of the Mosaic Code: the perfect glory of Christ, reserved for 'the morrow after.' The millennial 'Sabbath.' And while the millenial period is limited to a thousand years, there are no definite limits to this final age of glory."

-Dr. P. B. Fitzwater- (Professor of Systematic Theology- Moody Bible Institute) Christian Theology P. 407

"Then there is the Universalist who declares that the redemption provided by Christ avails for the salvation of all men. This means that what God has done for the salvation of sinful men accrues to the benefit of all men. This view of Universalism is quite widespread. Many leaders in the evangelical church hold to this view, even though they have not dared to declare it."

From the Lutheran ELCA website......

The Christian hope for salvation, whether for the believing few or the unbelieving many, is grounded in the person and meaning of Christ alone, not in the potential of the world's religions to save, nor in the moral seriousness of humanists and people of good will, not even in the good works of pious Christians and church people. ... There is a universalist thrust in the New Testament, particularly in Paul's theology. How else can we read passages such as 'for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ' (1 Cor 15:22)?" (See also Colossians 1:15-20, Ephesians 1:9-10, 1 Corinthians 15:28.) -Carl Braaten-

The universal scope of salvation in Christ ELCA Lutherans will say with Braaten,

"Salvation in the New Testament is what God has done to death in the resurrection of Jesus. Salvation is what God has in store for you and me and the whole world in spite of death, solely on account of the living risen Christ. ... The universal scope of salvation in Christ includes the destiny of our bodies together with the whole earth and the whole of creation. This cosmic hope is based on the promise of eternal life sealed by the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Through raising Jesus from the dead, God put death to death, overcoming the deadliest enemy of life at loose in the world. This hope for the final salvation of humanity and the eternal universal restitution of all things in heaven and on earth ... is drawn from the unlimited promise of the Gospel and the magnitude of God's grace made known to the world through Christ."

A Survey of Bible Doctrine" by Charles Ryrie, Professor of Systematic Theology: Dallas Theological Seminary.

In the section on future things, he dismisses the Restitution of all things which he refers to as "Classic Universalism" as unbiblical.

However

In his K.J.V. Ryrie Study Bible, which was published a few years after his doctrine book, he says a very interesting thing in his footnote on Colossians 1:20

Quote:
Col 1:20 .... to reconcile all things unto himself. Christ is the remedy for alienation from God, and eventually all things will be changed and brought into a unity in Him, even though this will involve judgment.
Christ Triumphant by Rev. Thomas Allin

TLC - Download File, "Christ Triumphant", by Thomas Allin

Last edited by Birdy_56; 03-15-2009 at 04:33 PM..
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:18 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,822,712 times
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Amen, Birdy. Thank you for sharing.


Quote:
There is no evidence in scripture that says that God will send people to Hell and then bring them into Heaven. There is no evidence in scripture that says that Hell in only temporary.


We are using different translations. Many scholars believe that the word which has been translated as "eternal" in some translations is an incorrect translation and is to be translated as "of or relating to an age, age lasting, age during"


Quote:
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.


"and these shall go away to punishment age - during but the righteous to life age - during" (Young's Literal)


2 thess. 1:9

9who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,
(YLT)


Isaiah 33:14

14Afraid in Zion have been sinners, Seized hath trembling the profane: Who doth dwell for us -- consuming fire, Who doth dwell for us -- burnings of the age? (YLT)

Quote:
Eternal - without end
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen," (1 Tim. 1:17).


17and to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only wise God, [is] honour and glory -- to the ages of the ages! Amen." (YLT)


Quote:
". . . To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" (Rev. 5:13).

13and every creature that is in the heaven, and in the earth, and under the earth, and the things that are upon the sea, and the all things in them, heard I saying, `To Him who is sitting upon the throne, and to the Lamb, [is] the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the might -- to the ages of the ages!' (YLT)

Quote:
Eternal Damnation
"And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever" (Rev. 19:3).


3and a second time they said, `Alleluia;' and her smoke doth come up -- to the ages of the ages! (YLT)

Quote:
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).


10and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages." (YLT)

Quote:
Jesus said,
"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).


8`And if thy hand or thy foot doth cause thee to stumble, cut them off and cast from thee; it is good for thee to enter into the life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast to the fire the age-during. (YLT)

Quote:
Jesus came so that we may have life, but everyoine want choose Christ, or go to Him.


I believe that many will experience the severe judgments of God. God is calling us to come to Him today, however, I also believe that eventually all will be subjected to Him so that He may be all in all. We can come today willingly or face the severe judgments of God, be broken later, but we will all come. Jesus said that He would draw all men to Himself. (John 12) and it was God’s good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself (Colossians 1) God bless.
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:06 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,346,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
Hell is as temporary as death, Shawn....

And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Theos/Pur.
That's not what the bible says. Give me one scripture that says that Hell is temporary.
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