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Old 03-17-2009, 10:37 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,378,017 times
Reputation: 577

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
Shawn: it is quite evident there are many things you have not found as yet. Be not be dismayed, it only requires the Son of God to open your understanding to understand the Scriptures.

I will gladly repeat: death and hell are ultimately consummated in the Lake of Jehovah's breath radiating with theion rooted in Theos. In the end, laddy, the whole of created life is to be released from the imprisonment and chains of slaves. "The whole of created life shall be delivered..." Not might be, or could be, the whole of created life (the ktisis) "shall be delivered." This is in total agreement with God's sacred purpose to consummate the all (the ta pantve) in Christ Jesus our Lord...the all, the ta pavnte, the whole within the heavens, the whole within the earth.

The question of all questions is essentially this: can evil finally triumph over Good?

If evil ultimately triumphs

If we answer affirmatively with the popular creed of unending evil and sin, we are practically falling into dualism; if we reply negatively, we are teaching the Restitution of all things. The Calvinist settled the question by, in fact, affirming that if evil triumphs it is because God so orders, that is, because God decrees to evil an eternal existence; thus saving or trying to save God's omnipotence, but at no less a cost than that of blackening His character, yes, of virtually making Him a partner in evil.

God Satisfied With Endless Disobedience?

But the popular creed of despair and unending curse saves neither the omnipotence of God, nor yet preserves His character. Sin, the one thing most utterly hateful in His sight, He tolerates forever and ever, poisoning and defiling His works, and defying His power--satisfied, if in this brief life He cannot have obedience and righteousness--satisfied with endless disobedience and sin hereafter.

A Baffled Saviour A Victorious Devil?

He appears before all creation as trying to dislodge sin, only to fail; as sending His divine Son to save all men in order that He may return rejected, baffled, vanquished. And so the curtain falls on the great drama of creation and redemption, presenting such a picture as this- a baffled Saviour, a victorious devil, a ruined creation, sin triumphant- and so to continue forever- a heaven wholly base, a hell wholly miserable.

God's Essence

Strong as these words are, they are not strong enough, for the horrors and the contradictions of the popular creed alike defy description. And these horrors are taught, these contradictions are believed in the face of the plainest teaching of God's two revelations, His primary revelation to our moral sense, His written revelation in Holy Scripture. From the first page to the last the Bible is the story on one who is our Father- one whose 'wrath', and 'fire', and 'judgement', are at once most real, and yet one and all are the expressions of that essential LOVE which He is- One who being Almighty is sending His Son to assured victory, to reconcile to Himself all things, 'whatsover and wheresoever they be.'

Vain Attempts

I know how eagerly men strive to save the popular creed, by diminishing the number of the lost, by softening their torments, by asserting their annihilation, etc. What are all these but to many tacit confessions that men everywhere feel it impossible to maintain the creed still generally professed? What are they but in fact so many vain attempts to disguise the awful fact of God's defeat, to hide if it may be the victory of the evil one? For so long as sin lingers in a single heart, so long as a single child of the Great Parent perishes eternally, whether annihilated, or sent to hell, so long is the Cross a failure, and the devil practically victor.

Christ Triumphant

HERE

And HERE

And HERE
Once again you give alot of information but not evidence from the scripture. So, I take it you don't have any. I read my bibie from beginning to end and have yet to find what you say in scripture. Thank you for giving me your opinion on what you believe, but I don't believe in universalism. There is not evidence in scripture that says anything about God sending people to Hell temporary and then bringing them to Heaven.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:44 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,422,226 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Once again you give alot of information but not evidence from the scripture. So, I take it you don't have any. I read my bibie from beginning to end and have yet to find what you say in scripture.
Keep reading the Scriptures from beginning to end, Laddy. Perhaps one day the Son of God will draw you aside to explain a few things.

The Golden Chain Of Reconciliation


Will Jesus Christ really do what He has come to do? Or will He fail?

The grandeur of our Father's Plan commences at creation when all things were created by, and in, the Christ, the Logos/Word, who reconciles (in fact re-creates) all things unto God. Col. 1:16-20

Hence His work is the restitution of all things-- Acts 3:21

He is heir of all things-- Heb. 1:21

In Him all nations are to be blessed-- Gal. 3:8

For the Father has given Him authority over all flesh, to give to whatsoever was given to Him eternal life-- John 17:2

And so; all flesh shall see the salvation of God. Luke 3:6

For God, whose counsel is immutable-- Heb. 6:17

Whose attitude to His enemies is unchanging-- Luke 6: 27-35

Will have all men to be saved-- 1 Tim. 2:4

And come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Has shut all mankind up unto unbelief, in order that He may show mercy upon all-- Romans 9:31

For out of Him, as Source, and unto, or into Him, as End, are all things whatsover-- Romans 11:36

And He has, therefore, put all things in subjection under Christ's feet. Eph. 1:21

Therefore, we are assured that God will gather into one all things in Christ-- Eph. 1:19

And His grace comes upon all men unto justification of life-- Romans 5:18

So Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands-- John 13:3

Promises by His cross to draw all men unto Himself. John 12:32

For having, as stated, received all things from the Father-- John 3:35

All that was given comes to Him; and He loses none-- John 6:37-39

But if any stray, goes after that which is lost till He find it-- Luke 15:4

And so makes all things new. Rev. 21:5

He comes in order that all men may believe-- John 1:17

That the world through Him, may be saved-- John 3:17

His grace brings salvation to all men-- Titus 2:11

For He takes away the sin of the world-- John 1:29

Gives His flesh for its life-- John 16:51

And, because the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (are irrevocable)-- Romans 9:29

He gives life to the world-- John 6:33

Is the Light of the world-- John 8:12

Is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world-- 1 John 2:2

Is the Saviour of all men-- 1 Tim. 4:10

Destroys the works of the devil, not just some of them only-- 1 John 3:8

And the devil himself-- Hebr. 2:14

Abolishes death-- 2 Timothy 1:10

Is manifested to put away sin-- Heb. 9:26

And thus subduing all things unto Himself-- Phil. 3:21

*** (The subjection clearly shows this subjugation to be conformity to Himself)

Does not forget the dead, but takes the Gospel to hades-- 1 Peter 3:19

Of which He holds the keys-- Rev. 1:18

For He is the same Saviour forever-- Hebr. 13:8

Thus even the dead are evangelized-- 1 Peter 4:6

And death and hades destroyed-- Rev. 20:14

Thus all are made alive in Him-- 1 Cor. 15:22

For Christ finishes/ completes His work-- John 17:4...John 19:30

Restores all things-- Acts 3:21

And there is no more curse-- Rev. 22:2,3

But every knee of things in heaven and earth, and under the earth, bends to Him-- Phil. 3:10

For the creation is delivered from the bondage of corruption-- Romans 8:21

And every creature joins in the song of praise-- Rev. 5:13

And so comes the END when He delivers up the Kingdom to God, Who is then ALL in ALL.-- 1 Cor. 15: 24-28

Hail To The Lord's Anointed

Sing it HERE

Here Is Love

Sing it HERE
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:38 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,898,160 times
Reputation: 1324
Amen, Birdy. Thank you for sharing. God bless.
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:46 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,378,017 times
Reputation: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
Keep reading the Scriptures from beginning to end, Laddy. Perhaps one day the Son of God will draw you aside to explain a few things.

The Golden Chain Of Reconciliation


Will Jesus Christ really do what He has come to do? Or will He fail?

The grandeur of our Father's Plan commences at creation when all things were created by, and in, the Christ, the Logos/Word, who reconciles (in fact re-creates) all things unto God. Col. 1:16-20

Hence His work is the restitution of all things-- Acts 3:21

He is heir of all things-- Heb. 1:21

In Him all nations are to be blessed-- Gal. 3:8

For the Father has given Him authority over all flesh, to give to whatsoever was given to Him eternal life-- John 17:2

And so; all flesh shall see the salvation of God. Luke 3:6

For God, whose counsel is immutable-- Heb. 6:17

Whose attitude to His enemies is unchanging-- Luke 6: 27-35

Will have all men to be saved-- 1 Tim. 2:4

And come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Has shut all mankind up unto unbelief, in order that He may show mercy upon all-- Romans 9:31

For out of Him, as Source, and unto, or into Him, as End, are all things whatsover-- Romans 11:36

And He has, therefore, put all things in subjection under Christ's feet. Eph. 1:21

Therefore, we are assured that God will gather into one all things in Christ-- Eph. 1:19

And His grace comes upon all men unto justification of life-- Romans 5:18

So Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands-- John 13:3

Promises by His cross to draw all men unto Himself. John 12:32

For having, as stated, received all things from the Father-- John 3:35

All that was given comes to Him; and He loses none-- John 6:37-39

But if any stray, goes after that which is lost till He find it-- Luke 15:4

And so makes all things new. Rev. 21:5

He comes in order that all men may believe-- John 1:17

That the world through Him, may be saved-- John 3:17

His grace brings salvation to all men-- Titus 2:11

For He takes away the sin of the world-- John 1:29

Gives His flesh for its life-- John 16:51

And, because the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (are irrevocable)-- Romans 9:29

He gives life to the world-- John 6:33

Is the Light of the world-- John 8:12

Is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world-- 1 John 2:2

Is the Saviour of all men-- 1 Tim. 4:10

Destroys the works of the devil, not just some of them only-- 1 John 3:8

And the devil himself-- Hebr. 2:14

Abolishes death-- 2 Timothy 1:10

Is manifested to put away sin-- Heb. 9:26

And thus subduing all things unto Himself-- Phil. 3:21

*** (The subjection clearly shows this subjugation to be conformity to Himself)

Does not forget the dead, but takes the Gospel to hades-- 1 Peter 3:19

Of which He holds the keys-- Rev. 1:18

For He is the same Saviour forever-- Hebr. 13:8

Thus even the dead are evangelized-- 1 Peter 4:6

And death and hades destroyed-- Rev. 20:14

Thus all are made alive in Him-- 1 Cor. 15:22

For Christ finishes/ completes His work-- John 17:4...John 19:30

Restores all things-- Acts 3:21

And there is no more curse-- Rev. 22:2,3

But every knee of things in heaven and earth, and under the earth, bends to Him-- Phil. 3:10

For the creation is delivered from the bondage of corruption-- Romans 8:21

And every creature joins in the song of praise-- Rev. 5:13

And so comes the END when He delivers up the Kingdom to God, Who is then ALL in ALL.-- 1 Cor. 15: 24-28

Hail To The Lord's Anointed

Sing it HERE

Here Is Love

Sing it HERE
Once again I say, I have read all of these scriptures, which none of them says anything about God sending someone to Hell and then bringing them to Heaven.
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:01 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,898,160 times
Reputation: 1324
Birdy, I love this passage of scripture in which God says that He will accomplish all His good pleasure. He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. If He intends for this to happen, no one will be able to stop Him, not even the most rebellious heart. It's about God's work in the creation, not about God yielding to our darkened minds. It is not thank you God, but no thank you. We have temporary, limited, restricted wills and if we reject Him today it is because we are blinded and deceived. The rejection is temporary. We are not the masters of our own eternal fate. We were created to glorify our Creator. All things were created for the Lord and to Him all things return.
Isaiah 46:9-11
Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.

I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.


Now, what creature can tell the Creator, no you can't?

Notes:
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (helkuo) all men unto me. (John 12:31)This he said, signifying what death he should die.Jesus did not die for Christians alone. If any man sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ. He is the propitiation for our sins, but not ours only, the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2), and by his own words, He will draw all men to his death if he is lifted up (on the cross). He was lifted up on the cross, so He will drag all men to the judgment of the world. He will "drag all men to the death he died."

The Greek word for "draw" in the above scripture is helkuo. According to the word meaning "to draw, drag off." In order for Christ to submerge all men in the death of the sinful flesh, is there any doubt that he must drag them (even if kicking and screaming) to him, to the death that he died? Do fish want to be caught? What happens when you bring a fish out of the depths of the water? They flop around in protest. They must be dragged into the boat by a stronger hand. Peter is instructed to DRAG the fish into the boat. Sooner or later, Christ would make Peter a fisher of men (Matt 4:19). Jesus himself will drag all men into the death of their sinful flesh. He will drag them to the extermination of "the body of this death." - Seth Tipton

But many don't like this. They think that it is wrong and unloving. They think that it is unloving for God to find and deliver a lost person, to save a drowning man. They believe that God's will is subject to their wills. They believe that God cannot make or force anyone do anything. Drawing someone, convincing someone, and subjecting someone suggests to me some type of force. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. This is a declaration of God. This will not be an option, but the wonderful thing is that this will be done willingly and in worship. The judgments of God have a higher purpose. God will bring about a change in the hearts and minds of His creatures. They will say of Him, only in the Lord have I righteousness and strength. They will remember and return to Him. (Psalms 22:27) God's will is the only Supreme will in the Universe and as Jesus prayed, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

Quote:
Jesus did acomplish HIs mission, because He gave us away to God which we did not have, because of What Adam and Eve did in the garden. Jesus restored a broken fellowship.


God sent Jesus on a mission to be the Savior of the world. Jesus was not only sent to make a way. He was sent to be the Savior of the world.

God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 03-17-2009 at 04:41 PM..
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:26 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,378,017 times
Reputation: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Birdy, I love this passage of scripture in which God says that He will accomplish all His good pleasure. He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. If He intends for this to happen, no one will be able to stop Him, not even the most rebellious heart. It's about God's work in the creation, not about God yielding to our darkened minds. It is not thank you God, but no thank you. We have temporary, limited, restricted wills and if we reject Him today it is because we are blinded and deceived. The rejection is temporary. We are not the masters of our own eternal fate. We were created to glorify our Creator. All things were created for the Lord and to Him all things return.
Isaiah 46:9-11
Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.

I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.


Now, what creature can tell the Creator, no you can't?

Notes:
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (helkuo) all men unto me. (John 12:31)This he said, signifying what death he should die.Jesus did not die for Christians alone. If any man sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ. He is the propitiation for our sins, but not ours only, the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2), and by his own words, He will draw all men to his death if he is lifted up (on the cross). He was lifted up on the cross, so He will drag all men to the judgment of the world. He will "drag all men to the death he died."

The Greek word for "draw" in the above scripture is helkuo. According to the word meaning "to draw, drag off." In order for Christ to submerge all men in the death of the sinful flesh, is there any doubt that he must drag them (even if kicking and screaming) to him, to the death that he died? Do fish want to be caught? What happens when you bring a fish out of the depths of the water? They flop around in protest. They must be dragged into the boat by a stronger hand. Peter is instructed to DRAG the fish into the boat. Sooner or later, Christ would make Peter a fisher of men (Matt 4:19). Jesus himself will drag all men into the death of their sinful flesh. He will drag them to the extermination of "the body of this death." - Seth Tipton

But many don't like this. They think that it is wrong and unloving. They think that it is unloving for God to find and deliver a lost person, to save a drowning man. They believe that God's will is subject to their wills. They believe that God cannot make or force anyone do anything. Drawing someone, convincing someone, and subjecting someone suggests to me some type of force. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. This is a declaration of God. This will not be an option, but the wonderful thing is that this will be done willingly and in worship. The judgments of God have a higher purpose. God will bring about a change in the hearts and minds of His creatures. They will say of Him, only in the Lord have I righteousness and strength. They will remember and return to Him. (Psalms 22:27) God's will is the only Supreme will in the Universe and as Jesus prayed, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."



God sent Jesus on a mission to be the Savior of the world. Jesus was not only sent to make a way. He was sent to be the Savior of the world.

God bless.
I like this scripture also but it does not show anything about what I was looking for.
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:02 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,898,160 times
Reputation: 1324
Hi Shawn, I was sharing with Birdy, that I love this passage of scripture because it shows me that God will accomplish whatever He purposes to do. If He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, He will bring it to pass.

Thelo=to will, indicating not only the willing of something, but a pressing onto action, denotes resolve, to will as equivalent to purpose

We serve a mighty God. God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 03-17-2009 at 06:38 PM..
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,898,160 times
Reputation: 1324
Shawn, my understanding of hell is that it is not a literal place and I don't believe that it is literal fire. I believe that it is something that people will experience-the torment, the anguish, that pain when they are face to face with the truth of their spiritual condition. It involves destruction, loss, shame. God turns man to destruction and says "Return, O children of men." (Psalm 90:3) The theme of destruction and restoration runs through the scriptures. The creation, all of creation is to be delivered (Romans 8) and this tells me that hell is not a permanent condition. Jesus Himself is to fill all things and if you believe that hell is a literal place, then Jesus will even fill hell. If the creation is to be delivered no one will remain lost forever or in a hellish experience forever. God bless.
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:10 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,422,226 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Once again I say, I have read all of these scriptures, which none of them says anything about God sending someone to Hell and then bringing them to Heaven.
You have read and read, Shawn, and like the disciples of old simply require your eyes to be opened. The Son of God still walks down dusty roads and still opens eyes that are closed! Yes indeed, ephphatha is still very much a part of our Lord's working in the human heart.

Quote:
The redemption is not only for mankind; it is for the universe, for the material earth, everything that sin and the devil have touched and marred has been completely redeemed by Jesus Christ.

There is a day coming when the redemption will actually be manifested, when there will be a "new heavens and a new earth" with a new humanity upon it. Oswald Chambers
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:37 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,422,226 times
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Yes, Shawn, the Son of God still heals blind eyes and deaf ears!

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/...72&version=kjv
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