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Old 03-01-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,657 posts, read 3,201,476 times
Reputation: 1837

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
If atheism were a religion with set beliefs, values, etc, maybe so. It isn't though. The only thing atheists have in common is that we don't believe in any gods. Aside from that, nothing. Atheism says nothing about morals, existence, etc. That's philosophy and atheists don't all follow one philosophy.
Unfortunately, for atheism to be true, Naturalism must be true. It is an irresponsible position to say that everyone elses beliefs are wrong, but not offer an alternative. (and uninteresting, really)I believe your beliefs are wrong, and I offer an alternative. And I would like to discuss a creationist vs. Naturalistic explanation of the Universe.

Last edited by Georgiafrog; 03-01-2009 at 07:59 PM.. Reason: sp

 
Old 03-01-2009, 08:15 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,082,015 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
Unfortunately, for atheism to be true, Naturalism must be true.
False. If the universe was designed, that doesn't necessarily mean it was done by a "god". There could be order in the universe, but who says a divine being has to be behind it? Atheism just means you don't believe in a god, nothing more. It says nothing about your opinion on existence, morals, etc. It should be clear to you at this point that nobody wants to have a discussion with you because you're trying to fit all atheists into one little box and make up their positions for them. People are more diverse than that. To label all atheists as naturalists is ignorance, plain and simple. That's like saying all theists believe the universe was created. There are some theists (I don't remember the proper title for them.) that believe there is a god, but he is part of the universe, and therefore didn't create it. Remember that the next time you try to press labels on people. By your logic, all theists agree with you, which is false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
It is an irresponsible position to say that everyone elses beliefs are wrong, but not offer an alternative. (and uninteresting, really)
It's illogical to resort to "goddidit" when you come across something you don't know much about or can't explain at the present time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
I believe your beliefs are wrong, and I offer an alternative. And I would like to discuss a creationist vs. Naturalistic explanation of the Universe.
Hmm...there's only two boxes to fit people in? No other "alternatives" (ironic how you use that word, but try to make it seem as if there are only two choices)?

Bottom line is this. If somebody tells you they are an atheist, all it means is they don't believe in any gods. It tells you nothing about their opinions on existence, the universe, morality, etc. Stop trying to label everyone and then just maybe somebody will be interested in having a discussion with you.

Last edited by Haaziq; 03-01-2009 at 08:25 PM..
 
Old 03-01-2009, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,657 posts, read 3,201,476 times
Reputation: 1837
The main posited explanation of origin from atheists is Naturalism. Theists, by definition believe in a God. If the Universe was designed, it has a designer, so I don't really see where you are going there.. You have put forward no beliefs, just non-belief. What is there to talk about with someone who has no beliefs? What is the point of browsing a philosophy forum when you have no philosophy?

You immediately write off the supernatural, wheras I unite the supernatural and the empirical. Closing your mind to what is possible is folly. Your mind is more closed than mine my friend.

I can walk around touting that I don't believe in the tooth fairy. What are the ramifications if the tooth fairy doesn't exist? Just one less element in the Universe. But there are big time ramifications if God does not exist, and the lack of a God removes possible explanations of the Universe. So yes, atheism walks hand in hand with a naturalistic explanation of the Universe. To deny this is bad philosophy. But I suppose you will write me another paragraph stating "You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong". Such negativity.
 
Old 03-01-2009, 08:42 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,082,015 times
Reputation: 2007
Add me to that list of people that doesn't want to discuss this with you. You ignored over half of my statements and still haven't got it through your head that there are over thousands of viewpoints on the matter and that neither atheists nor theists can be put into one box.

And for the record, I haven't even given my personal opinions in this thread, so stop making assumptions about me.
 
Old 03-01-2009, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,657 posts, read 3,201,476 times
Reputation: 1837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
Add me to that list of people that doesn't want to discuss this with you. You ignored over half of my statements and still haven't got it through your head that there are over thousands of viewpoints on the matter and that neither atheists nor theists can be put into one box.

And for the record, I haven't even given my personal opinions in this thread, so stop making assumptions about me.
All the same to me. As of yet you have had nothing to discuss. And for the record, your opinion of atheism is all I needed to make assumptions. Perhaps you have not considered all that is entailed in that belief?
 
Old 03-01-2009, 08:57 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,082,015 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
All the same to me. As of yet you have had nothing to discuss. And for the record, your opinion of atheism is all I needed to make assumptions. Perhaps you have not considered all that is entailed in that belief?
What is there to discuss with someone who thinks he's got all atheists figured out?
 
Old 03-01-2009, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,657 posts, read 3,201,476 times
Reputation: 1837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
What is there to discuss with someone who thinks he's got all atheists figured out?
Okay. You got me. Go on, shoot. What is your view on the origin of the Universe and morality?
 
Old 03-01-2009, 09:04 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,082,015 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
Okay. You got me. Go on, shoot. What is your view on the origin of the Universe and morality?
As far as the origins, I side with science and it's discoveries. Morality is really complex. It stems from many things. Human emotion and compassion, the golden rule, and the need for a civilized society.
 
Old 03-01-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,657 posts, read 3,201,476 times
Reputation: 1837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
As far as the origins, I side with science and it's discoveries. Morality is really complex. It stems from many things. Human emotion and compassion, the golden rule, and the need for a civilized society.
May I assume you believe in the big bang and the evolutionary process to explain origin? And may I assume that our perception of morality is something that we evolved?
 
Old 03-01-2009, 09:37 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,082,015 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
May I assume you believe in the big bang and the evolutionary process to explain origin?
Yes, but not all atheists do. That's the point I was making before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
And may I assume that our perception of morality is something that we evolved?
It depends on what you mean by evolution. If you mean progression of civilization, then yes. That's more of a sociological issue though. Not human evolution.
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