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Old 03-01-2009, 10:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
I see alot of posts from atheists on this site who are good about attacking those of the faiths, but I haven't seen much of an explanation regarding the origin of man or the universe. Can you account for existence, morality, and significance of action with an atheistic worldview?
nope. they don't. and they can't.

 
Old 03-01-2009, 10:42 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,086,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
nope. they don't. and they can't.
Nothing new from you. The usual one or two sentence posts making claims with nothing to back them up.
 
Old 03-01-2009, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,038 posts, read 30,705,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
May I assume you believe in the big bang and the evolutionary process to explain origin? And may I assume that our perception of morality is something that we evolved?
Where do you think morality came from? Surely not God and the bible. If all that is written in the bible is what you base your morals on, no thanks, I'll take a pass. In the Bible, words having to do with killing significantly outnumber words having to do with love.
 
Old 03-01-2009, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,660 posts, read 3,204,851 times
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Okay. There are many theists in the world who jump to conclusions at the drop of a hat regarding anything that happens that is unexplainable. I am not one of them. I believe that the Universe is the result of a massive explosion from a microscopic point of infinite density that is constantly expanding from the original point. The Big Bang. I also believe that life originated on earth in our oceans as single celled organisms, and through a process of evolution, was able to climb up onto land and adapt to it's environment over the millenia, eventually becoming sentient in the apparition of Humanity. I believe that man has the ability to use reason to study and determine these things, and I also believe that we will continuously discover more about the Universe around us. But I am also of the opinion that the odds against such a thing as this happening by accident are astronomical(pardon the pun). There is too much "fine tuning" in the Universe that allows us to survive, and thrive. I also believe that the more science uncovers, the more complex the Universe is found to be, lending, I believe, additional wieght to a design theory. Never has anyone come close to proving that the existence of the supernatural is impossible. It can't be done. Yet there are many atheists in the world who discount the supernatural at the drop of a hat. Why not be open to both possibilities rather than write off that which is possible? I believe that what we know about the Universe makes a designer probable.

Morality- My beliefs on morality also extend from the possibility of a creator. If a creator of the Universe possessed an ultimate quality of either good or evil and instilled this quality into his creation, I believe we would have a pretty clear and absolute understanding of morality to spring from. If the ultimate quality of true good can be recognized, than it's polar opposite can be more easily defined. In order to give Humanity an intrinsic worth, I believe the creator gave us free will. In order to have free will, the creator had to create a world in which the opposite of his nature was allowed(what fun would it be to have a planet full of robots who are forced to worship you?) Hence, the existence of evil in the world. But now we come to the point. I believe that it is very hard to adhere to any true moral code if that moral code is subject to change on circumstance, or is relative to each and every individual. If it became necessary at any point to turn our morality on it's end to meet any existential crises, any action could be justified. I think that some actions are intrinsically evil(genocide, murder, rape). But with a subjective morality, one could concievably come up with situations in which those actions could be considered socially acceptable(overpopulation, underpopulation, etc..) Whaddaya think?
 
Old 03-01-2009, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,660 posts, read 3,204,851 times
Reputation: 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Where do you think morality came from? Surely not God and the bible. If all that is written in the bible is what you base your morals on, no thanks, I'll take a pass. In the Bible, words having to do with killing significantly outnumber words having to do with love.
I still have never quoted the bible once. You put the two together. God and the bible. They can exist seperately, and I believe they do. I personally don't take much stock in it.
 
Old 03-01-2009, 11:36 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,086,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
Never has anyone come close to proving that the existence of the supernatural is impossible.
By definition, supernatural means can't be explained by science (at that point in time). If I went back in time and showed cavemen a lighter, it would be supernatural. The claim is not there is nothing supernatural. That wouldn't make sense as some things are still being researched by scientists now. Until all knowledge of these things is learned, they are technically supernatural. The actual position of many of us on the skeptical side of the fence is that we won't believe it until we see proof. I have yet to see any evidence that backs up the claims of theists, which is why I don't believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
I believe that what we know about the Universe makes a designer probable.
Hmm..I think it's safe to say the majority of physicists, astronomers, and cosmologists say the exact opposite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
Morality- My beliefs on morality also extend from the possibility of a creator. If a creator of the Universe possessed an ultimate quality of either good or evil and instilled this quality into his creation, I believe we would have a pretty clear and absolute understanding of morality to spring from. If the ultimate quality of true good can be recognized, than it's polar opposite can be more easily defined. In order to give Humanity an intrinsic worth, I believe the creator gave us free will. In order to have free will, the creator had to create a world in which the opposite of his nature was allowed(what fun would it be to have a planet full of robots who are forced to worship you?) Hence, the existence of evil in the world. But now we come to the point. I believe that it is very hard to adhere to any true moral code if that moral code is subject to change on circumstance, or is relative to each and every individual. If it became necessary at any point to turn our morality on it's end to meet any existential crises, any action could be justified. I think that some actions are intrinsically evil(genocide, murder, rape). But with a subjective morality, one could concievably come up with situations in which those actions could be considered socially acceptable(overpopulation, underpopulation, etc..) Whaddaya think?
I'm too lazy to break everything you said down, so I'll just leave you with this thought. Assuming there is a god that created morals, he probably felt is was necessary for society to thrive. If that is the case, then he didn't create those morals. They were already needed for a society that functions well. That would mean that those morals existed, but he needed to lay them out to his "creations". If that is not the case, then that means morals are random and have no valid purpose. I think morals defined by society are superior by far.
 
Old 03-01-2009, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,660 posts, read 3,204,851 times
Reputation: 1838
Actually, supernatural, by definition, means that which is above nature. Meaning that it won't fit within the laws of the Universe. Such an entity would have to exist outside of the boundaries of natural law.

It is true that many scientists are naturalists, but then again many aren't. I think alot of people are turned off to the possibility of a creator by the ridiculous actions and rules put out there by religion. I think that this would include many scientists who are constantly immersed in studying natural law. And I have yet to hear from any atheistic scientist just where the road to discovery is leading.

But assuming there is a god, and he did create the Universe, I don't see how any sort of morals could already be there. If you have nothing, it's kinda hard to project a moral code onto something. Unless the moral code that predates the Universe is supernatural, and I suppose if it exists outside of natural law it would have to be. I do agree, however, that random, subjective morality is meaningless. But I believe morality to be a reflection on the nature of the creator.
 
Old 03-01-2009, 11:55 PM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,799,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Where do you think morality came from? Surely not God and the bible. If all that is written in the bible is what you base your morals on, no thanks, I'll take a pass. In the Bible, words having to do with killing significantly outnumber words having to do with love.
Well let's also look at the other side of the coin. While I have always agreed that religious has it's historical darkside, you refuse to ever acknowledge the darkside of athiesism and what the theory of evolution has brought to the party. Such well known imfamous Atheists who created the religious philosophies as NAZISM & COMMUNISM and forced them on mankind also preached words of love of a better world, a motivation of nothing more than their idealogy was for humankind's betterment. But what do the facts bear out. Rather than promoting any type of loving pure secularist brotherhood of man, they butchered and murdered more people than all the religious conflicts put together. Their genocidal philosophies and Social engineering policies/programs were a directly founded on the research done with regard the theory of evolution. History bears this out. Look up their supporting scientists, psychologist and philosophers who wrote the books on the subject. Here are some portaits of the most notorious you and others may be familiar with.








http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3e/Mao_Zedong.jpg (broken link)



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Pol_Pot2.jpg (broken link)



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Milosevic-1.jpg (broken link)

Now, are all atheists guilty for the above men and their social engineering policies based on the theory of evolution ??? Of course not. But when you make lying misleading false statements about the Biblical record, and what God's laws actually were, then you also leave yourself and your side open to the same criticsim for your group's dirt. Both sides have their extremists fundamentalists, both share equal BloodGuilt!

Now you wanna criticize biblical characters for their failings ??? No need, the bible already candidly does that. Modern day religions fault is that they often went to bed with such men as the above, and the criminal shame is they should have known better.

So when you get on your high horse of superior intellect and Socially moral enlightenment there Sandy, you're inviting the same DarkSide truth exposure of your position as well.

Have a nicer day
 
Old 03-02-2009, 12:13 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,907,484 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
Nothing new from you. The usual one or two sentence posts making claims with nothing to back them up.

No reason to give more when I can sum it up in a short answer.
 
Old 03-02-2009, 12:14 AM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,086,027 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
Well let's also look at the other side of the coin. While I have always agreed that religious has it's historical darkside, you refuse to ever acknowledge the darkside of athiesism and what the theory of evolution has brought to the party. Such well known imfamous Atheists who created the religious philosophies as NAZISM & COMMUNISM and forced them on mankind also preached words of love of a better world, a motivation of nothing more than their idealogy was for humankind's betterment. But what do the facts bear out. Rather than promoting any type of loving pure secularist brotherhood of man, they butchered and murdered more people than all the religious conflicts put together. Their genocidal philosophies and Social engineering policies/programs were a directly founded on the research done with regard the theory of evolution. History bears this out. Look up their supporting scientists, psychologist and philosophers who wrote the books on the subject. Here are some portaits of the most notorious you and others may be familiar with.


















Now, are all atheists guilty for the above men and their social engineering policies based on the theory of evolution ??? Of course not. But when you make lying misleading false statements about the Biblical record, and what God's laws actually were, then you also leave yourself and your side open to the same criticsim for your group's dirt. Both sides have their extremists fundamentalists, both share equal BloodGuilt!

Now you wanna criticize biblical characters for their failings ??? No need, the bible already candidly does that. Modern day religions fault is that they often went to bed with such men as the above, and the criminal shame is they should have known better.

So when you get on your high horse of superior intellect and Socially moral enlightenment there Sandy, you're inviting the same DarkSide truth exposure of your position as well.

Have a nicer day
Hitler was a Catholic. He believed killing Jews was doing "God's Work".

Have a nice day.
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