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No . . . I mean "A PURPOSEFUL" Creator . . . not mine or yours or anyone else's human descriptions. Either we exist in purposeful universe against which purpose value can be measured . . . or we exist in a purposeless universe against which NO value judgments are legitimate . . . just arbitrary. If you have values . . . they are arbitrary unless you believe in a purposeful Creator . . . or you are irrational.
Of course we exist for purposes -- but not for the reasons of fictional God, and their "interpreters" who put words in God's mouth.
Human purposes are defined by human society. Human purposes are real, not Mystical. Religions should stay in mystical world, and stay away from real human society.
"In what ways have Atheism and non-belief played a detrimental role towards humans/society?"
Oh, let's see...how about Hitler's Third Reich, Stalin's reign of terror and Pol Pot for starters.
How about millions and millions murdered because they were judged to be lower forms of life and subject to being rooted out on the basis of survival of the fittest or preservation and promotion of the super race?
If we come from nothing, go to nothing and nothing in life makes sense, it's very easy to justify in one's own mind suicide and/or mass murder on a grand scale ie., Columbine, Va. Tech and Dunblane.
The great Nazi defense at Nuremberg was simply this: What right did other countries have to condemn Germany for genocide when the German people visa vi German government had determined it to be moral, ethical and practical?
If you subscribe to moral relativism, you have absolutely no argument against such assertions.
Of course we exist for purposes -- but not for the reasons of fictional God, and their "interpreters" who put words in God's mouth.
Human purposes are defined by human society. Human purposes are real, not Mystical. Religions should stay in mystical world, and stay away from real human society.
No, Bud . . . either we exist for A PURPOSE or we don't. A bunch of different purposes is just arbitrary nonsense and meaningless as a basis for values. IF there is NO PURPOSE . . . then there are NO values. IF there are values . . . then there is a PURPOSE and a Creator of the purpose.
Of course we exist for purposes -- but not for the reasons of fictional God, and their "interpreters" who put words in God's mouth.
Human purposes are defined by human society. Human purposes are real, not Mystical. Religions should stay in mystical world, and stay away from real human society.
I imagine atheists to be about as embarrassed by this guy as I am about scripture quoting, non thinking religious zealots. Is there an ignore button or at least a "Most Irrelevant" award?
Last edited by Georgiafrog; 02-28-2009 at 08:51 PM..
Reason: sp
So I was having a conversation with a friend of mine who happens to be a Catholic. The following questions were posed and I was curious to see what some of your responses would be.
1. In what ways have religion played a beneficial role towards humans/society?
2. In what ways have religion played a detrimental role towards humans/society?
3. In what ways have Atheism and non-belief played a beneficial role towards humans/society?
4. In what ways have Atheism and non-belief played a detrimental role towards humans/society?
Insight and thoughts from all perspectives (both religious and non-religious) is encouraged! Please refrain from bashing and belittling other views, as this is an exercise of YOUR thoughts, not someone elses. Here are my answers:
1. Mediating force for early societies. Moral foundation, instilled values based on teachings of the Bible and other religious texts.
2. Countless religious crusades/inquisitions in the 'name of God', resulting in numerous human deaths and casualties. Repression of human rights and promotion of inequality (i.e. Sharia Law, gay marriage). Suppression in the advancement of scientific and human knowledge by a religious institution (i.e. Galileo and Copernicus exiled by the Catholic Church).
3. Breaking free from the restraints of religion to pursue new theories and observations that have benefited humans (stem cell research). Enforcement of the separation of church and state, improvement of civil rights.
4. Still working on this one...
Although one can observe my responses as Atheist, I consider myself agnostic. It's for this very reason I'd like to read responses from both religious and non-religious people to broaden my own understandings of religion and faith. Let's try to keep this discussion civil, as I look forward to read all of your responses!
Biggest pro for Christianity is that you go to heaven....and a big big con of not believing in it is, in my mind is burning in hell.
Sorry...but if all I wanted was a self-improvement idea, I'd go to a Zig Zeigler conference or buy an Anthony Robbins tape.
...4. In what ways have Atheism and non-belief played a detrimental role towards humans/society? Atheism should have stepped out of its fears, and made a stand for intellectual equality several thousands years ago. The philosophy to lead without killing, to accept responsibility for human actions and not push, or allow a myth to set rules in reality is part of what we should have been setting our sights on. We stepped back and in a form of arrogances let the religious lead the ignorant down a path which resulted in death, poverty, and abuse of power through out our history. The harm to humanity is immeasurable and our inaction is part of the blame.
I won't deny that there are Extremists in any belief system, Bible Thumpers take it too far, too as we've seen in history.
Not all Athiests are Nazis and Stalins and Mousolinis. Those men were crackpots even to an Athiest's point of view.
Overall the lack of belief doesn't harm anyone. Average plain old religious and athiests pretty much act the same in regular society and you can't tell one from another unless they flat out tell you, hence harmless. What we see on these forums are the Extremists that take it too far (for both groups), those people can be harmful, but are in the minority overall.
Forcing Athiests to play along so we don't have to get criticized by Bible Thumpers, is more harmful. At least Athiests don't go knocking on everyone's doors trying to spread the word and get mad if you say your not interested.
"In what ways have Atheism and non-belief played a detrimental role towards humans/society?"
Oh, let's see...how about Hitler's Third Reich, Stalin's reign of terror and Pol Pot for starters.
How about millions and millions murdered because they were judged to be lower forms of life and subject to being rooted out on the basis of survival of the fittest or preservation and promotion of the super race?
If we come from nothing, go to nothing and nothing in life makes sense, it's very easy to justify in one's own mind suicide and/or mass murder on a grand scale ie., Columbine, Va. Tech and Dunblane.
The great Nazi defense at Nuremberg was simply this: What right did other countries have to condemn Germany for genocide when the German people visa vi German government had determined it to be moral, ethical and practical?
If you subscribe to moral relativism, you have absolutely no argument against such assertions.
And aside from Nazis 70 years ago that everyone agrees were pure evil, what else ya got?
Most athiests are not that extreme, just as most religious people are not that extreme in thier beliefs. Overall Athiests are no harm no foul to anyone. So we don't need mythology to get thru life. Big whoop and good for us. Life goes on.
No, Bud . . . either we exist for A PURPOSE or we don't. A bunch of different purposes is just arbitrary nonsense and meaningless as a basis for values. IF there is NO PURPOSE . . . then there are NO values. IF there are values . . . then there is a PURPOSE and a Creator of the purpose.
I know your "one purpose" life: God sacrifice his son (or some other grand, grand, ... son) for the sins of humans. May that's all you are (die of cross of sins), others choose not to be.
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