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Old 03-28-2009, 06:37 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,560,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Here is the behemoth Niik..This is what ancient people living along the Nile saw...I am impressed with their size, strength and speed. It is quite a fearful sight to see. Notice how the tail is used in the conflict.


YouTube - NATURE | Hippo Beach | Beach Master | PBS
So tell me, when was the last time you saw a hippopotamus sway his tail like a cedar tree? LOL
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Old 03-28-2009, 07:10 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,420 posts, read 3,633,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Our far-fetched notions are based on historical facts that have been around for a long time.
Rubbish. All you have are far fetched notions.
Quote:
Yet the problem is getting believers in evolution to even consider the hard evidence, because they have been swept away with their personal theories.
Yet the problem is getting believers in YEC to even consider the hard evidence, because they have been swept away with their personal beliefs - fixed.

Oh and the YEC crowd refuse to answer questions and offer an explanation which is all too evident in this thread - I wonder why that is? Oops there's a question
Quote:
And their theories are considered facts to believers in evolution, because that is as close as they can get to real evidence.
Uhm, real evidence already presented, still awaiting a plausible explanation for the Vic Falls, Kango Caves, Ice Cores and recently the oldest tree in the world (9550 YO)
Quote:
And of course to continue to believe those theories, you have to ignore the more factual evidence.
But we have debunked everything offered most of it scams and hoaxes. When are you going to at least try to offer and explanation as so often requested? Whoops another question
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Old 03-28-2009, 07:33 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,560,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Rubbish. All you have are far fetched notions.
Yet the problem is getting believers in YEC to even consider the hard evidence, because they have been swept away with their personal beliefs - fixed.

Oh and the YEC crowd refuse to answer questions and offer an explanation which is all too evident in this thread - I wonder why that is? Oops there's a questionUhm, real evidence already presented, still awaiting a plausible explanation for the Vic Falls, Kango Caves, Ice Cores and recently the oldest tree in the world (9550 YO)
But we have debunked everything offered most of it scams and hoaxes. When are you going to at least try to offer and explanation as so often requested? Whoops another question
I'm still waiting to learn from you guys when believers in evolution tested the dinosaur figurines from El Toro Mountain? They were time tested no less then four times, with dates confirming they were ancient. Yet believers in Evolution tell us all the dates were false. So, when did your people test the figurines? And don't forget, it takes more than your personal opinion to debunk evidence. It takes hands on testing which you guys don't seem to get around to doing. Now, could you please show us the scientfic review for those figurines?
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Old 03-28-2009, 07:50 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,420 posts, read 3,633,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
I'm still waiting to learn from you guys when believers in evolution tested the dinosaur figurines from El Toro Mountain? They were time tested no less then four times, with dates confirming they were ancient. Yet believers in Evolution tell us all the dates were false. So, when did your people test the figurines? And don't forget, it takes more than your personal opinion to debunk evidence. It takes hands on testing which you guys don't seem to get around to doing. Now, could you please show us the scientfic review for those figurines?
But Tom, that is all you have, these figurines. This is not my dog in the "fight" as I never rebutted it. However I will ask just one simple question.

You claim artifacts as greater evidence over

Dating of dino fossils and other fossils (millions of years)
Dating of Ice Cores (750k)
Dating of Trees shown to be older that 4000 years (9550 YO)

Why?

Even your YEC sites acknowledge the supposed artifacts found in coal is questionable including your hammer and cast iron pot - I posted the links earlier.

As for what I have read from the figurines exchange, why are they being kept from public view now? Why were ceramics dated with C14 which is designed to do carbon based fossils and organisms?

Everything you have offered has been debunked or at least does not go past reasonable doubt.
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Old 03-28-2009, 08:27 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,560,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I see that you are again avoiding questions and changing the subject...... There is no mention of dinosaurs in the bible...You are imagining things again.

The word dinosaur was not coined until many years after the Bible was written, yet the Bible describes such a beast, and calls it the Leviathan. In the Book of Job chapter 41 it speaks of him.

Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about. His (SCALES) are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. One is so near to another, that no air can come between them. When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. Upon earth there is not his like, who is make without fear. The arrow canot make him flee: He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? Canst thou put an hook into his nose? None is so fierce that dare stir him up:

God is mocking the timeline of evolution, yet few are wise enought to embrace what is being spoken of here. It is their worldview that blinds them. In just recent years they discovered that dinosaurs had scales for skin. The Bible spoke of dinosurs, and it did not fail to mention that their skin was made up of (SCALES) that formed an air tight seal. The Book of Job was written about 2800 years ago.
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Old 03-28-2009, 09:04 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,420 posts, read 3,633,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The word dinosaur was not coined until many years after the Bible was written, yet the Bible describes such a beast, and calls it the Leviathan. In the Book of Job chapter 41 it speaks of him.
Job 41:1 Can you draw out the leviathan with a hook, or hold down his tongue with a cord?

Leviathan H3882 לויתן livyâthân liv-yaw-thawn'
From H3867; a wreathed animal, that is, a serpent (especially the crocodile or some other large sea monster); figuratively the constellation of the dragon; also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.

All the 36 translations I have infer a crocodile or sea monster and specifically a water beast.
Quote:
Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about. His (SCALES) are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. One is so near to another, that no air can come between them. When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. Upon earth there is not his like, who is make without fear. The arrow canot make him flee: He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? Canst thou put an hook into his nose? None is so fierce that dare stir him up:
Another reason to come to Africa. See some real beeg crocodiles.
Nile Crocodile


Perfectly described above More pics Nile Crocodile

No results found for "nile water snakes"

Ever tried to catch a crocodile? Ever watched how nonchalant they are when the modern croc handlers try and close their mouths with that pole gadget? They are not afraid of humans.
Quote:
God is mocking the timeline of evolution, yet few are wise enought to embrace what is being spoken of here. It is their worldview that blinds them. In just recent years they discovered that dinosaurs had scales for skin. The Bible spoke of dinosurs, and it did not fail to mention that their skin was made up of (SCALES) that formed an air tight seal. The Book of Job was written about 2800 years ago.(citation needed)
According to Wiki, the dating is much younger.

Seeing that the original 1614(?) Olde KJV translation preceded the word of dinosaur, why have no translations since replace the word Levithian to Dinosaur? Other corrections have been made in subsequent translations.

You are grasping at straws. BTW I thought the inerrant camp claims that the original translators of the original KJV were Holy Spirit inspired. Are you now suggesting they were not? Seeing Strongs is so widely accepted and is absent of any mention to dinosaurs, where do you draw inference of dinosaur from?

Surely if one is to study and cross reference concordances, we should take the concordance as (relatively) accurate or are the authors of the concordances also in cahoots with the ebul scientists?

Last edited by SeekerSA; 03-28-2009 at 09:31 AM..
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Old 03-28-2009, 09:30 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,560,302 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
But Tom, that is all you have, these figurines. This is not my dog in the "fight" as I never rebutted it. However I will ask just one simple question.

You claim artifacts as greater evidence over

Dating of dino fossils and other fossils (millions of years)
Dating of Ice Cores (750k)
Dating of Trees shown to be older that 4000 years (9550 YO)

Why?

Even your YEC sites acknowledge the supposed artifacts found in coal is questionable including your hammer and cast iron pot - I posted the links earlier.

As for what I have read from the figurines exchange, why are they being kept from public view now? Why were ceramics dated with C14 which is designed to do carbon based fossils and organisms?

Everything you have offered has been debunked or at least does not go past reasonable doubt.
Not all the figurines are made of ceramics, numerous ones are made of stone. However, Radiocarbon 14 can be used on ceramics if they have a sufficient amount of carbon. It is also my understaning, that some of the labs in question used Thermoluminescence for the testing of the figurines.

Dinosuar bones are not usually tested using Carbon 14, because the believers in evolution assume they are millions of years old, and that would put them past the time frame of Carbon 14. Yet, when dinosaur bones have been tested useing Carbon 14, in every case dates are in the thousands of years. And if the bones were millions of years old, there should be no dates present, because there should be no carbon present.
Just like there should be know stretchable blood vessels present in dinosaur bones either. Yet when you believe evolution, all things are now possible. LOL

And not everything I have offered has been debunked, only denied. And I can say that, because there has been no serious scientific review. And I always mention the figurines of El Toro mountain, because that is a perfect example of science ignoring the 800 pound gorilla. And that is why I will ask you again, can you tell us when your evolutionary science tested those figurines? And because the figurines have been tested no less then (four times), and the last time was in 1997. It should still be possible to test them today. That is, if any of your people were really that intrested. Yet it's pretty obvious to me, that since their discovery in the 1940s, few believers in evolution really appear to be that intrested in them.
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Old 03-28-2009, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,877 posts, read 18,273,183 times
Reputation: 9865
A closed mind is a good thing to lose.

What is a Closed Mind?

A closed mind filters out and blocks off new or different ideas, information, and beliefs. A person can be generally or specifically closed-minded. A few people have fixed and final opinions on pretty much everything. Most of us are closed-minded only in specific areas. Only on specific beliefs, ideas, and matters. We may be unwilling to listen to and even-handedly consider ideas different from our own in matters of religion, morality, sex, or politics.

Closed minds use hostility, prejudice, indifference, and inattention to keep new or different ideas from gaining a foothold. Closed minds stand in the way of learning and change....Michael Cloud
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Old 03-28-2009, 09:34 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,420 posts, read 3,633,126 times
Reputation: 1678
Default More on scales and feathers

From: Developmental Biology 8e Online: Did Birds Evolve from the Dinosaurs?
First, there is evidence that birds are derived from reptiles. This is a matter of unanimous agreement among evolutionary biologists. Birds are considered feathered reptiles. Like all other reptiles, birds have scales (feathers are produced by tissues similar to those that produce scales, and birds have scales on their feet) and birds lay eggs like other reptiles. The soft anatomy (musculature, brain, heart, and other organs) all are fairly similar; birds are more derived in some aspects, owing partially to their endothermic metabolism and their ability to fly.

Second, there is evidence that links the skeletal characteristics of birds to those of dinosaurs. On the basis of the synapomorphic traits, Gauthierís analysis revealed the closest relatives to birds are probably the Coelurosaurian dinosaurs. Some scientists will go so far as to say birds should be considered coelurosaurs, a group of dinosaurs includes the Velociraptor.
If your Leviathan had scales - reptiles do too, are you in agreement with the link between birds and dinos?
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Old 03-28-2009, 09:52 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,560,302 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Job 41:1 Can you draw out the leviathan with a hook, or hold down his tongue with a cord?

Leviathan H3882 לויתן livyâthân liv-yaw-thawn'
From H3867; a wreathed animal, that is, a serpent (especially the crocodile or some other large sea monster); figuratively the constellation of the dragon; also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.

All the 36 translations I have infer a crocodile or sea monster and specifically a water beast.
Another reason to come to Africa. See some real beeg crocodiles.
Nile Crocodile


Perfectly described above More pics Nile Crocodile

No results found for "nile water snakes"

Ever tried to catch a crocodile? Ever watched how nonchalant they are when the modern croc handlers try and close their mouths with that pole gadget? They are not afraid of humans.
According to Wiki, the dating is much younger.

Seeing that the original 1614(?) Olde KJV translation preceded the word of dinosaur, why have no translations since replace the word Levithian to Dinosaur? Other corrections have been made in subsequent translations.

You are grasping at straws. BTW I thought the inerrant camp claims that the original translators of the original KJV were Holy Spirit inspired. Are you now suggesting they were not? Seeing Strongs is so widely accepted and is absent of any mention to dinosaurs, where do you draw inference of dinosaur from?

Surely if one is to study and cross reference concordances, we should take the concordance as (relatively) accurate or are the authors of the concordances also in cahoots with the ebul scientists?


I was not aware Crocodiles had scales for skin?

(One is so near to another, that no air can come between them. They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.)

Did you not read the Text, perhaps your the one grasping for straws here?
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