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I preface this by noting that while there is much intellectual discourse on this forum in favor and support of aetheistic apologetics, the topic has not been formally portrayed with a bias towards what purpose and place it would serve in our society.
I referenced a book (which is not a best-seller, and I will address that later) Handbook of Atheistic Apologetics by Francois Trembley (2003) Certainly the arguments and issues of atheistic faith are presented, yet again, this book is still relatively obscure in terms of sales and popularity.
Hitchens mentioned a scene in God is Not Great where he was told by a police officer, set to guard him and others at an atheistic meeting, something along the lines "You people deserve whatever they do to you" meaning that as an aethist, he would be looked down upon and discriminated. This is an example of where many people simply do not want to hear from an atheistic point of view.
I would propose first, that in our turbulant society, the need for some type of faith remains and Islam and Christianity have been the aggressive marketers to fill that need. Now I am not saying that I agree with what they teach, because I don't . I am saying that I see how they rose to the top of numbers and statistics. I would secondly propose that Atheism, not Christianity, and not Islam, will solve more of societies problems.
Now I have journaled and cataloged hundreds of notes, meetings, discussions with various Christians and religious followers of various degree. If and When (and the operative word is more when that if) I get these written and published, I am faced with changing names and places in order to guard against a certain backlash of a society that believes itself to be in desperate need of religious faith. I would love to tell some of my stories, and I would love to have people want to hear them. But is our world really truly ready for an atheistic apologist to come forward?
Mentioning the book above, let us look at the rise of Islam in America. For years, the Gideons placed Bibles in almost every hotel room and prison cell in this country. Prisoners now have a Quran along with their Bible in many of their jail cells. Islam has found a captive audience, literally, and offers a message to someone imprisoned. No prison in this nation has a copy of Francois' book, I am even willing to bet many members of this forum never even heard of it. (And that is NOT a slight towards anyone, rather a comment on our society and the availability of religious materials.) Islam and Christianity market themselves wherever and whenever they can; and atheists are enemy number one (or two after that red-horned guy) of these religions. So goes the story.
SO I ask dear members of this forum, should atheism be taught along side Christianity in compartive religion classes? Should atheists be included and consulted in world decisions? Is the world not only in need of, but more importantly, ready for, atheistic foundations?
Say what?!? There is NO atheistic faith. There are NO foundations of atheism. Atheism is one thing and ONE THING ONLY: a lack of belief in a god/higher power/deity. That's it!
That would take what, all of TWO FREAKING SECONDS to "teach" to students.
SO I ask dear members of this forum, should atheism be taught along side Christianity in compartive religion classes?
Well, first off, atheism is not a religion. That right there would keep it out of a compartive religion course.
Secondly, if atheism were to be compared againgst other relgions i have a feeling the class would speend several weeks covering all the different religions, their similiarities, differences, origins... And then when they got to atheism all they would have to say is "Atheism does not accept the belief in any deity", thats about all they could say on athiesm, because that is really the only uniform aspect of it.
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Originally Posted by LargeKingCat
Should atheists be included and consulted in world decisions?
Absolutly, were part of this world, and as such our view points should be considered and respected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat
Is the world not only in need of, but more importantly, ready for, atheistic foundations?
Ready for? Unfortuanaly, I dont think so. You brought up the point of the police officer making discriminating remarks, and the sad thing is that this is not an isolated incident. People fear what they do not understand, and a large portion of the world cannot comprehend how one may not believe in any sort divine being. Through their fear they lash out at that which they do not understand.
As discussed in other threads, atheism is a philosophy which shapes your worldview. You do have a belief system. Having the ability to answer or explain that belief system should not be viewed as strange.
As discussed in other threads, atheism is a philosophy which shapes your worldview. You do have a belief system. Having the ability to answer or explain that belief system should not be viewed as strange.
No, YOU keep saying it's a philosophy, while it patently is NOT, even though you've been told this time and time again by atheists -- whom as I seem to recall, you don't even believe exist.
Atheism is not a philosophy any more than the disbelief in Santa Claus is a philosophy.
I disagree. Atheists have a well defined philosophy, and it is not just disbelief in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God. Atheists would have a lot to discuss, mainly morality and human rights, for which Religious people have accused them otherwise of not having; Atheists do have a place in society, and Atheistic Apologetics would show this. I would also point out where Atheistic Apologetics could point by point religious theory; and I am not talking about saying "Oh I don't believe that" but more importantly "WHY I don;t believe that" Such discourse would be far more interesting and could lead to actually encouraging people to think for themselves, and to see atheisms place in the world.
This is kind of what I've been aiming at here too. Atheists do have a philosophy that is entailed by a disbelief in a creator, but most atheists just don't really realize it. If there is no Santa Claus, so what? But the world is stood upon it's end if there is no God, and those who beleive this have an obligation to defend the claim. I hear over and over again in this forum that Christians or theists are stupid or ignorant, and are just blindly following an indefensible belief. I have encountered with just a couple of exceptions exactly the same thing from the atheists here. Atheistic apologetics is at the forefront of philosophy debate currently in the world, defending a Naturalistic worldview. Certainly not all atheists are Naturalists, but so far Naturalism is the one worldview that has been defensible against attacks of logic and reason. There was just a debate (last week, I think it was?) between two of the worlds top philosophers. Alvin Plantinga, the theistic philosopher, and Daniel Dennet, atheistic philosopher. Google Plantinga, Dennet. Very interesting.
Atheists have no obligation to defend their belief that there is no god, anymore than you have any obligation to defend your belief in a deity, other than simply to say "it's what I believe". And no, there is no standard philosophical outlook that you can peg on an atheist. Personally, I'm an atheist and a Buddhist, but my philosophy is shaped by the Buddhism and NOT the atheism. The atheism is just a side note in everything.
Without getting too deep here, I too believe atheism is a philosophical viewpoint (however it is not a 'faith'). It's way too simplistic to say that atheists have no philosophical belief system because they do not believe in the existence of gods. We all form our views of the world on a foundation of a constructed belief system, religious or otherwise.
For example, I consider myself a secular humanist/freethinker, which itself entails certain beliefs - one of which is an absence of a belief in the supernatural (inc. gods or other deities).
Atheism is a rejection of religion. It holds the view that god's are constructs of the human psyche and nothing more. This (in and of itself) is a philosophy for sure but it is not another religion, and I think that is what most atheists object to.
Philosophy is the study of general problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, truth, beauty, justice, validity, mind, and language. Philosophy is distinguished from other ways of addressing these questions (such as mysticism or mythology) by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on reasoned argument. The word philosophy is of Ancient Greek origin: φιλοσοφία (philosophÃa), meaning "love of wisdom."
Given the above definition, atheism can be described as a philosophical point of view because it is a view of existence and knowledge based on the individuals observations. Meaning they have found no evidence for a god and so don't believe it exists.
I think that anyone who has thought about things enough to come to this conclusion must have philosophical views on many aspects of life. Otherwise they are simply rebelling against an idea rather than forming their own. I don't see what the stigma attached to the word philosophy is, it's almost like it is poison to some ears. I can see the objection to any inference of religion though and I think the OP is treading dangerously close to that line when they suggest that atheism could be taught alongside Christianity in comparative religion classes because it implies that it is, in fact, another religion.
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