Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Please don't apologize for your english. I can't speak at all in any other language. Thank you for the apology for the sarcasm.
I'll post shortly the prophecies of the Messiah from the OT. I actually found a really cool table of them (not all, but the main ones).
How do you feel about this verse, that Jesus confirms He is the Son of God?
Matthew 16:13-17...
13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
thank you
i have the same problem again
look mzjamiedawn, i allready believe that OT contains prophecies about jesus (pbuh) , and i'm believe that jews were waiting him either , even your verses proof that they didn't wait just one , there were many so that they confused which one of them jesus is
i just want from you to give the one which refer to comming of massiah to die for the sin of his follower you see , i want the prophecy which written before comming of jesus (pbuh) .
concerning the verse you quote
while he asking his followers about the views of people , he admitted by his tongue that "he is son of man "
he asked them : what they say about son of man
not asking them : what they say about me , he allready confessed that he is a man ( no chance to be somthing different )
allow me to represent to you the view of christians V.S my personal view about this verse
you tring to tell me that simon confesed that he is the son of God while others differes about him to be the babtis or ilias or jewmiah or one of the prophets , then jesus (pbuh) answrered him saying : Blessed art thou, Simon , this verse one of the verses which proof to christians that jesus said that he is the son of God , right ?
but what about if the answer of simon or justifying of jesus (pbuh) to simon wasnt about his saying " son of God"
it was because simon answerd " you are the christ"
simon knew that jesus not ilias nor jermiah nor the babtist rather he is the christ , and this was the correct answer which jesus satisfied with .
son of God in entirely bible not always refere to jesus (pbuh) and never meant to be literally
Quote:
Also, how do you divide one post into different quotes? Thanks!
by insert the massage you quoting between those codes inside two brakets ( i just made it one to appear to you)
quote] ------ the words youwanna to quote ------ [/quote
Just out of curiosity... Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God, Jesus as the Messiah, and Muhammad to be a false prophet. Muslims believe the Quran to the word of God, Jesus was only a prophet, and Muhammad was the last prophet.
Since these facts are true (to each that believe them)... will either side ever get the other to see or believe in their own side? Because seriously, if I honestly believe the Bible to be God's word, then anything a Muslim says contradictory to it, I'm going to dismiss. And, on the other hand, Muslims believe the Bible is corrupt now, so they're not going to listen to any scripture a Christian reads to them that can prove Islam wrong.
So in all honesty, the main reason I even refute any Muslim's thread is simply so others who don't understand can see both sides. I understand planting God's Word is planting a seed, and you hope it will grow. But as faithfully as I know they cannot convert me, I'm sure they are just as faithful that I cannot convert them.
Debating Christians (well, most anyway), you at least have the commonality of the Bible. We don't have that common ground with Muslims.
So I guess my question is... Christians, why do you debate the Muslims? Muslims, why do you debate the Christians?
I hope I presented this question fairly and without bias.
"The religions can't all be right, but they can all be wrong." Funny that God created a world in which this statement made sense.
mzjamiedawn, I'd like to say that I did not read any sarcasm in elwill's post, and that his apology to you didn't seem to me to be an apology for sarcasm. I think that you misinterpreted his English and and his apology was for the confusion, not an admission of sarcasm.
hi Mommoytotwo . thank you for your insert
offcourse , i didn't mean any sarcasm atall , i just apologized for any offenses may be i caused without my intended
Quote:
Btw, I don't think that Muslims believe that Jesus ever lied. I think there is a verse in the Quran which relates that God asked Jesus "Did you tell them that you were God?" and Jesus says "No". Or something to this effect (someone else may be able to help me out here if you want exact quotes/verses). So, in any event, I don't think that Muslims believe that Jesus lied, just that somehow the message got mixed up.
yes that's right we believe that in judgment day . God will judge on christianse by asking jesus (pbuh) if he really asked them to worship himself ? and his answer will be "no" this conversation which will happen in this day exist in quran chapter " almaidah"
5-116
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
117 "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
118 "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."
I'd like to start off by saying I thought when elwill said, "but we allready have the OT , what about if you gave me the one which exist in OT ? or maybe this one is lost or deleted from OT !!" he was being sarcastic. If you weren't, elwill, my apologies!
hi Mommoytotwo . thank you for your insert
offcourse , i didn't mean any sarcasm atall , i just apologized for any offenses may be i caused without my intended
yes that's right we believe that in judgment day . God will judge on christianse by asking jesus (pbuh) if he really asked them to worship himself ? and his answer will be "no" this conversation which will happen in this day exist in quran chapter " almaidah"
5-116
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
117 "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
118 "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."
Thanks for clearing that up, I couldn't remember the specifics...
Good Morning!
Btw, just in case you didn't get that, mzjamie, to multi quote, I just cut and paste the first quote info (for example, in the box above "
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill
") and the last quote brackets "
".
So copy them and insert them before and after whatever you want to appear in the blue boxes. You can do this however many times you need to, and then insert your paragraphs after the copied and pasted brackets.
For the life of me I couldn't figure out how people were doing this and finally found a thread that told how to do it! I also had to search to figure out how people were leaving messages with the rep points.
mzjamiedawn, I'd like to say that I did not read any sarcasm in elwill's post, and that his apology to you didn't seem to me to be an apology for sarcasm. I think that you misinterpreted his English and and his apology was for the confusion, not an admission of sarcasm.
This was my first order of business this morning, because if I misunderstood, I wanted to apologize.
Quote:
You have been very unbiased in this thread and your posts, I agree. I believe your way leads to very productive discussions. I really think that you and those posting here have stated their cases wonderfully.
Thank you. I'm glad you feel that way. I like productive discussions rather than everyone just putting the other down. I learn so much more this way.
Quote:
Regarding the bible quotes you posted, when I read them I did not understand them to mean that Jesus was literally the "son" of God, or that he was going to "save" everyone by himself. It seemed like he might say that he was the son of God just like people think that they are the children of God, but they don't mean that God is actually their father. And also regarding his saving people, I see how elwill interpreted that as Jesus saving people by leading them to their own salvation but not by his BEING their salvation.
That's fair. While I obviously disagree, I can understand why you believe this way.
Quote:
I was always confused about why Christians believed Jesus is actually God.
As for your question about whether either group could ever get the other to believe in their side, I think the answer is no, because once a person believes in the other side they are then a convert, not part of their original group.
I agree. So I'm glad we can have respectful discussions about one another's beliefs.
Quote:
I'll tell you that I am from a pretty non practicing Christian family (and I use the word loosely here because there was virtually NO religion in my house growing up--my only exposure to religion was going to church and Sunday school with my aunt/uncle/cousin), and I have never understood why people believe Jesus is actually God. I learned about Islam because my DH is Muslim, and of course I had to check it out before I married him (he wanted the kids to be muslim). I read that they believed that Jesus was a prophet, that Mohammad was another prophet that came later, and that God is God, not Jesus or Mohammad, or the Father or the son or a holy Ghost and that just made sense to me. For me, once I believed that Mohammad was a prophet, and that Jesus was not God, well I didn't feel that I could even loosely call myself "Christian". Once I believed in the message of the "other side", well that kind of kicks me out of the first group. How many Christians do you know believe that Mohammad is a prophet and that Jesus isn't God? I'd say none, because if they actually believe that they are no longer Christian.
A lot of people have trouble with the trinity, so I understand. I agree, if a Christian believed Muhammad to be a prophet of God, they wouldn't be a Christian anymore, but a Muslim.
Quote:
The bottom line is, that we all have to respect each other, and deal with each other in a respectful way.
Absolutely! I think we can discuss our beliefs and still respect each other. I do understand why Muslims believe the way they do, which is why I respect them. I do however disagree completely with them, which is why I debate them.
Quote:
Btw, I don't think that Muslims believe that Jesus ever lied. I think there is a verse in the Quran which relates that God asked Jesus "Did you tell them that you were God?" and Jesus says "No". Or something to this effect (someone else may be able to help me out here if you want exact quotes/verses). So, in any event, I don't think that Muslims believe that Jesus lied, just that somehow the message got mixed up.
I totally agree. I don't think Muslims believe that Jesus lied, or that they believe they are saying He did. What I meant was, Christians believe Muslims are basically saying Jesus is a liar, because He did claim divinity (in my belief), and yet Muslims say He is not divine.
Quote:
A friend once told me long ago that religion could be looked at like wagon wheel, with God in the center. And all of our different religions were just different spokes of the wheel, leading to the same place, the center, or God. I have always thought that that was a really nice way to look at it, that we are all on different paths to the same destination.
I love that scenario, but since Christianity teaches the only way is through Jesus, and Islam teaches one must believe in Muhammad, does that make the scenario true?
Thank you so much, mommytotwo. I enjoy talking with you.
thank you
i have the same problem again
look mzjamiedawn, i allready believe that OT contains prophecies about jesus (pbuh) , and i'm believe that jews were waiting him either , even your verses proof that they didn't wait just one , there were many so that they confused which one of them jesus is
I don't see that. Where does it talk about them waiting on more than one Messiah?
Quote:
i just want from you to give the one which refer to comming of massiah to die for the sin of his follower you see , i want the prophecy which written before comming of jesus (pbuh) .
I think I have realized the confusion. It's in the meaning of the word Messiah.
also [SIZE=-1]Mes·si·as[/SIZE] (m-ss) [SIZE=-2] KEY [/SIZE] The anticipated savior of the Jews.
also [SIZE=-1]Messias[/SIZE] Christianity Jesus.
[SIZE=-1]messiah[/SIZE] One who is anticipated as, regarded as, or professes to be a savior or liberator.
In the OT, the Jews had to sacrifice an animal yearly for their sins. They understood that the coming Messiah would be the ultimate sacrifice for their sins, that He would be their Savior (Messiah). So all of those verses I showed you that Jesus fulfilled makes sense when you look at it as Jesus being the Messiah, or Savior.
Quote:
concerning the verse you quote
while he asking his followers about the views of people , he admitted by his tongue that "he is son of man "
he asked them : what they say about son of man
not asking them : what they say about me , he allready confessed that he is a man ( no chance to be somthing different )
Yes, Jesus was in the form of a man while on the earth. He did call Himself the "Son of man", so actually, He was asking them what do they say about ME.
Quote:
allow me to represent to you the view of christians V.S my personal view about this verse
you tring to tell me that simon confesed that he is the son of God while others differes about him to be the babtis or ilias or jewmiah or one of the prophets , then jesus (pbuh) answrered him saying : Blessed art thou, Simon , this verse one of the verses which proof to christians that jesus said that he is the son of God , right ?
Yes.
Quote:
but what about if the answer of simon or justifying of jesus (pbuh) to simon wasnt about his saying " son of God"
it was because simon answerd " you are the christ"
simon knew that jesus not ilias nor jermiah nor the babtist rather he is the christ , and this was the correct answer which jesus satisfied with .
It is part of it. But you cannot just take part of his answer and leave out the rest. He answered, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God'. So in one sentence Simon said Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) and He is the Son of God.
Quote:
son of God in entirely bible not always refere to jesus (pbuh) and never meant to be literally
I disagree. I believe it to be literal when referring to Jesus.
Quote:
by insert the massage you quoting between those codes inside two brakets ( i just made it one to appear to you)
quote] ------ the words youwanna to quote ------ [/quote
Thanks again for showing me this! This will make things so much easier!
I would have to disagree with this explanation, ptsum. A lost soul is anyone who has not obeyed the gospel and accepted Jesus as their Savior. A lost soul can still be saved.
I thank you for clearing up that misunderstanding, as I said, I am not that well versed in your sacred book and I was trying to explain it the best I could or understood it to be, however I do thank you for that exclamation.
It is good to see that debate can be respectful and can be for learning and teaching, I believe it is okay to disagree with one another, but at the same time it can be respectful and that all parties can go away from the debate with a different outlook towards one another in a respectful way.osay
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
-s
) [SIZE=-2] 
