How do you prove you're a pastor? (souls, priests, suicide)
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My brother is studying to be a licensed pastor. I hadn't ever really thought about it before since we don't talk much and couldn't be further apart ideologically. But the other day I got to thinking what qualifies someone to be a pastor?
For every other profession I can think from being a barber to being a physician, you have to pass certain measurable, tangible benchmarks to show that you possess the level of skill necessary to be a licensed professional.
So how does this work for pastors?
They don't work with anything you can measure the affect on. As far as I know they don't have to go and get recertified. You certainly don't have to adhere to the morality code of being a pastor (Ted Haggard, any televangelist). So how do you prove that you are capable of being pastor.
I don't really care because it's all a sham but I'm just curious as to why people that hold the job in such high esteem have so little quantifiable over sight in their leaders.
What denomination is your brother in? Just curious.
I'm working on my Master's Degree now in the hopes of being a pastor. It's not a simple thing. Some churches just want a guy with a Bachelor's Degree, some want a 4 year Seminary degree--plus a Bachelor's.
Typically you're ordained by a denomination, which requires an examination of the candidate's academic knowledge, as well as an examination of their personal life--requiring references. This usually involves having someone "vouch" for them. Televangelists are probably an exception--I think some of them just call themselves a preacher.
Are pastors that only people you can think of that violate their moral obligations? Never seen an unethical cop? Doctor?
I just did a Google search out of curiosity and this link is typical of what I found:
I know they have Bible colleges and that sort of thing but I get the feeling that a person could become a pastor without alot of educational background. Then of course there's alot of self styled individuals who start their own organizations and call themselves ministers but they've just created their own church and made themselves the leader of it like it's just a business which it often is. I do think a fairly large and established church who was looking for a new pastor would probably require some educational credentials but I also think they're looking for other qualities as well.
Exactly the next point I was going to make. If someone doesn't pass the test to be a doctor or lawyer than they aren't doctors or lawyers. If they go and open some place doing lipsuction in a strip mall they'd get shut down.
So why is it that people of faith have no standards on the people they follow and give money to? You wouldn't go to an unqualified professional. This is just another danger of blind faith.
Exactly the next point I was going to make. If someone doesn't pass the test to be a doctor or lawyer than they aren't doctors or lawyers. If they go and open some place doing lipsuction in a strip mall they'd get shut down.
So why is it that people of faith have no standards on the people they follow and give money to? You wouldn't go to an unqualified professional. This is just another danger of blind faith.
I don't trust our government to make that decision about who is qualified. I agree that unfortunately some really gullible people tend to believe any shyster that asks for money...but you can't fix stupid.
I don't trust our government to make that decision about who is qualified. I agree that unfortunately some really gullible people tend to believe any shyster that asks for money...but you can't fix stupid.
And you and millions of others haven't? Really, just because there's millions of you believing in raised from the dead gods and talking snakes doesn't mean it's anymore nonsensical than anything said by George Jones, David Koresh, or Marshall Applewhite.
Would like to read a Post "Sermon" from someone who can preach a topic without Quoting anything from the Bible...but from the heart and soul....honest tear jerker.
Any know it all Pastor people out there without credentials?
I believe then, that his ordination would be dependent upon the denomination.
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And you and millions of others haven't? Really, just because there's millions of you believing in raised from the dead gods and talking snakes doesn't mean it's anymore nonsensical than anything said by George Jones, David Koresh, or Marshall Applewhite.
Christianity has one up on the other religions...it's right. You can choose not to believe if you don't want to.
Becoming a minister in most protestant denominations is not just obtaining a license. The license is granted by the government to identify the clergy to the government officials. Many licensed ministers have no congregations and preach in no church. Most denominations require ordination by their church elders to permit ministry in their denominations. I can mail order a license from a whole slew of places on the internet for a number of "religious orders" and use that to obtain my government recognition from the IRS, but they won't do squat for me at the local church.
I can shed some light on how it was done for members of my family in the Southern Baptist denomination.
My father was ordained as a Deacon and my brother became a minister.
The Deaconship is a lay position and requires no special training or degree. When someone is considered to be of proper disposition and character and has become knowlegable in the scripture they are nominated to the church fellowship for the Deaconship. A group of elder Deacons and ministers from the church and possible fellow churches will convene and question the applicant to evaluate the candidate. If they feel he is qualified, they perform an ordination ceremony and confer the title.
The Preacher is more formal with degree requirements, recommendations and evidence of service in a church role before the ordination can be nominated. These requirements will vary from church to church. As someone else mentioned, some churches require Masters, some Doctorates, others Bachelors or even associate degrees. There are some that do not require degrees, but similar to Deacons, only evidence of knowledge and character recommendations. Most do require the training in some formal environment.
Once the requisites are completed, there is a more intense version of the Deacons questioning applied to the Minster candidate from a commitee comprised of ordained ministers. Only if the ministers are satisfied, regardless of the grades in school, can the minister become ordained.
So the legal part doesn't really mean anything you just have to seem like you're a good enough person? Hell I wish I could be a CEO because my friends can all vouch for me and I seem like I'd be good at it. That's nonsense. It all seems pretty baseless to me. If a guy has a crappy marriage but seems like he does and his friends agree that everything is ok, than it's ok for him to tell people about their marriages?
This is pretty eye opening. People will follow people based on nothing than a feeling. What other person would keep their job if they had no qualifactions or proof that they could do that job?
I've got to take L.R. Hubbard's advice and start my own religion.
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