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i wish Montana had not used the term 'supernatural'; unusual would have been my choice.
I used the word supernatural because it defines an event that shouldn't be possible because it appears to defy the laws of physics. I realize that we don't have a total understanding of physics but phenomenon such as esp and levitation haven't been proven to exist although many wild claims have been made over the years. My whole point in starting this thread was to see if someone could pin down a single supernatural event that was well documented with supporting evidence that demonstrates that it's the real thing and so far no one has been able to.
I don't know anything about your brother-in-law's "church"...but when you read the accounts of the changed lives of the people....and how they willingly suffered persecution like they did.....well, it makes one think. People don't accept martyrdom because of what they know to be a lie.
What do you think about the suicide bombers in the Middle East?
I used the word supernatural because it defines an event that shouldn't be possible because it appears to defy the laws of physics. I realize that we don't have a total understanding of physics but phenomenon such as esp and levitation haven't been proven to exist although many wild claims have been made over the years. My whole point in starting this thread was to see if someone could pin down a single supernatural event that was well documented with supporting evidence that demonstrates that it's the real thing and so far no one has been able to.
in say Teslas time, physics scientists may not have found and gathered enough knowledge ...
but even as a lay person today i can understand that as yet unproven phenomena such as the ones mentioned here can be thought as natural, though still unusual.
Ahhh, Montana.... dont'cha wish that perhaps you'd just stayed in bed? Every time I've tried to start a quiet little philosophical thread, the wacka-loons, who cannot, to save their lives, read and adhere to an OP, surface like chunks in a cessp.... well, you understand.
As if on cue, we have...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich
I... when you read the accounts of the changed lives of the people....and how they willingly suffered persecution like they did.....well, it makes one think. People don't accept martyrdom because of what they know to be a lie.
kd, did you / can you read the OP? This is NOT your thread forum for defensive proselytizing or putting down anyu other religion or belief! It's completely unrelated to the OP, fur Chry$t's sake!
Montana Guy asked proven cases of "unusual" supernatural events, like a table flying out the window, circling around, and coming back. I agreed with you that some of the supposed events of the bible could qualify, but that's all that needs to be said, not a relentless diatribe about how your religion is the only one, how people's blind foolishness in response to propaganda...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly
Like the Japanese Kamakazi pilots fighting on the side of the Nazis?
...in any way proves anything. (BTW, to round out that idea, the Mayans tossed virgins off cliffs, several tribes in the S. American jungles practiced (still do?) cannibalism, etc., etc. By your very own stated logic, this thus proves the validity of their stories.)
So, give it a rest, man! When you start in with another innapropriate off-topic response, I'm pretty sure I can hear a sort of collective groan from the readers. You know, like they also emit when they see another of my long posts?
Go start your own thread: Why I Believe in My Version of Everything, and Never in Yours!
Back to BlueFly's observations for a moment...
There's a reason people with advanced educations and living in cosmopolitan areas don't adhere to fundamentalism. It's easy if you're just looking in one direction to draw all sorts of conclusions about martyrdom and Christ. But when you are exposed to many different perspectives, you realize your view can't possibly be the whole story.
How true!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich
The kamikaze pilots hadn't seen their emperor deity crucified and resurrected. They bought into propaganda.
99.9% of Christ's subsequent followers ditto did not personally witness his crucifixion. It was all hearsay. And, since it also proselytized, it was, by definition, propaganda. Not all propaganda is false, BTW... Hence, by that same token, I'm a dedicated believer in The Flying Spaghetti Monster! As in "I hear-tell HE can fly at supersonic speeds, and I recently heard a sonic boom out where we KNOW he lives, so....." There's even pretty good evidence that Christ was, at best, just an allegorical construct, but THAT's another thread for sure!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy
I used the word supernatural because it defines an event that shouldn't be possible because it appears to defy the laws of physics. I realize that we don't have a total understanding of physics but phenomenon such as esp and levitation haven't been proven to exist although many wild claims have been made over the years. My whole point in starting this thread was to see if someone could pin down a single supernatural event that was well documented with supporting evidence that demonstrates that it's the real thing and so far no one has been able to.
I know, I know... there there. I'll help you chase the apparently dyslexic posters away...
The witness of 500 people who saw him alive afterward.
The changed lives of men that saw him and followed his teachings.
A church founded on the fact.
The willingness of men to go to their martyrdom because they believed what they saw.
On the same token though tens of thousands of Chinese peasants saw Boxer rebels use secret Kung-Fu magic to make themselves invulnerable to bullets. These demonstrations inspired them to join the rebellion thinking the same magic would protect them when in fact the boxers were simply firing blanks during said demonstrations. Witness often tend to be unreliable even in court cases.
I can't think of a single supernatural event that has any evidence at all, but that is the nature of things beyond the natural I guess. If there were evidence, then it wouldn't be classed as supernatural.
The historicaly well documented phenomenon of an illiterate 17 year old peasant girl leading a medieval King's army to miraculous victory after victory has to rank way up there somewhere. I refer, of course, to Joan of Arc, who claimed to led by spiritual guides, among them the Archangel Michael. All of her predictions based on her "voices" came to pass. That is, according to the Bible, the test of a true prophet.
On the same token though tens of thousands of Chinese peasants saw Boxer rebels use secret Kung-Fu magic to make themselves invulnerable to bullets. These demonstrations inspired them to join the rebellion thinking the same magic would protect them when in fact the boxers were simply firing blanks during said demonstrations. Witness often tend to be unreliable even in court cases.
Did the Boxer rebels claim divinity? Did they die and rise again? Was there a church founded on them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
kd, did you / can you read the OP? This is NOT your thread forum for defensive proselytizing or putting down anyu other religion or belief! It's completely unrelated to the OP, fur Chry$t's sake!
I gave a 1 sentence response to the OP's question. Sorry if I then have had to answer questions about it. If you don't like it, don't respond to me
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