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That's the main counter to 'god is more probable' than 'something out of nothing'.
'something out of nothing' is looking more feasible these days. A fully -formed intelligent but incorporeal being - and only one of them, we are asked to believe, always having existed with no orgin, or having appeared out of nowhere seems far more counter -intuitive.
It depends on what people mean by something out of nothing.
The matter and energy in our universe are products of the expanding singularity, so did not exist at the start of the universe. In that sense, we did come from nothing.
But did that singularity come from an absolute nothing? I doubt it, because I find it difficult to accept there could ever be an absolute nothing.
So you don't know how it came about, you don't know how it began, or why it started expanding. So many unanswered questions.
You have the same problem. How exactly did your god do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
The difference though, is that this "animate, intelligent, complex being" is not the universe itself, nor is it a part of the universe. Do you see my point? Something cannot create itself. The universe cannot create itself, or cause itself to exist, and the singularity could not simply cause itself to exist.
No one is arguing the universe created itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
SOMETHING had to exist outside of it that was uncaused.
The only difference between us is what that something was. For you, it was an intelligence. For me, it was something much less complex, and therefore much more probable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
<edit> BTW.....I want to thank you for the good conversation. I've intentionally ignored the other posters on this thread for the reason that I just want to address you--and go back and forth on it. Thanks for being respectful.
I always respect people who are asking honest questions, and I believe you are honestly trying to see my point of view.
If my answers ever appear to be rude because they are short, it will be because I have a problem expressing something in English, or because my time is short due to work.
"Who created God " is the college kid question.
Atheist philosophers themselves have rejected that silly question.
Its an embarrassment to atheism that people like Dawkins keep ressurecting it in sloppy pop science paperbacks.
Perhaps if you learnt to argue rationally for yourself instead of relying on Youtube videos (from a Christian ministry), not all of us have time to watch a video.
I'm going by what atheists have been saying for a long time. Until it turned around and bit them.
Atheists never said this. Atheists do not believe in gods. Your constant need for straw manning points to just how little evidence you have for your beliefs.
Here is where you link to a cosmologist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg
It all sounded very clever until the cosmological constant was discovered to be so astoundingly improbable that it gave strong evidence of design.
As "design" by some improbable intelligence is most unlikely, then a far more plausible hypothesis (66.7%) would be that of a multiverse. That you constantly need to ignore maths points to just how little evidence you have for your beliefs.
You can ignore me as much as you like but my mate Diogenes, who is hanging around and never mind his regular work will no doubt argue my points if he hasn't already got there ahead of me.
Sorry, I was away for the week, to see if I would be a major part of that large project I mentioned earlier. Unfortunately my AI expertise was in the wrong field, although I will be given some smaller projects to do.
But they did pay for my three days there, and me and my wife extended our stay to make a mini holiday. And we made friends with a very intelligent chap (he speaks eight languages) who invited us to stay with him and his wife in Italy after the summer.
A very interesting week, and I did not think of this forum at all.
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but my mate Diogenes, who is hanging around and never mind his regular work 
will no doubt argue my points if he hasn't already got there ahead of me.
