The Pope Pius XII Defence thread (myth, priests, bible, Isaac)

[sanspeur]

To be fair here is the story from a Jewish viewpoint...I suppose the policies of the Vatican effected the Jews more than most.

Pope Pius XII's (1876-1958) actions during the Holocaust remain controversial. For much of the war, he maintained a public front of indifference and remained silent while German atrocities were committed. He refused pleas for help on the grounds of neutrality, while making statements condemning injustices in general. Privately, he sheltered a small number of Jews and spoke to a few select officials, encouraging them to help the Jews.

Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust

[Currency Pair Crocodile]

Originally Posted by dcashley

Has anyone read "constitine's sword" a book written by James Carroll--he used to be a priest. It shows the history of anti-semitism and the part the catholic church played in it.

Yes I have

But why do I even need that book to know what I already know.

Take it from me. The papacy had a tangible part in anti-semitism. The papacy sent the Jews into ghettos. Some Popes even made them go through Titus' arch every year in Rome, as a sign of humiliation. I don't seek to deny any of that.

But this is like the Israeli-Palestinian problem. Suddenly in 2008, some East Asian young man witnesses Israeli tanks in youtube and goes, "them, poor palestinians". Noone would expect him to even know of haj amin husseini, or the balfour declaration, or the collective war the Arabs waged to throttle Israel in the late 40s. This average youtuber is a victim of temporal propaganda, one slice of a whole sausage.

Anti-semitism is a direct Roman problem. It's the general anger in the Empire over a sect of people who constantly rebelled, and who were quelled, massacred and sold as slaves across Europe. And after the sale, this race as a collective becomes the cultural vestige of Europe and everything which issues out of Europe, one among them being the Rome-embraced catholicism, adulterating its purest past form of the apostolic fathers.

If this were catholic perpetrated, why did anti-semitism cross over into say, secessionist/Tudorian England? Why did it have to enter English folklore in the form of literature from the likes of Shakepeare or even Dickens much later? Remember Shylock? Fagin?

Or let's fast forward into century 21, why is Europe unanimous in its criticism of Israel? We all know how much catholicism has been rooted out of the European psyche. Why does the NY times have to constantly do editorials on never-ending anti-semitism in Europe?

Sorry man, I don't buy it. The catholic church was never the originator nor the constant perpetrator of anti-semitism. It's genetic to the European psyche. It will always be the undying legacy of the Roman empire.

Originally Posted by dcashley

As to Colossus_Antonis, who refers to people hating the catholic church, I think one of the books of the new testament, ...Matthew chapter 7:16 --- If I'm right...but I know it says, "you shall know them by their fruits..." What are the "fruits" or "deeds" of the catholic church: Anti-Semitism, Inquisition, etc etc...and most recently the pope telling poor people in Africa to not use condoms--apparently he thinks dying of AIDS is more humane than preventing a pregnancy...(what a dufess--"you shall know them by their works..."

This is like diffraction in physics. When propagating elctro-magnetic waves run into obstacles they bend over the sides and aperture trying to sneak through. We discuss Pacelli and when I present historical events, you are bringing in other issues with the sole purpose of demonizing an institution which you have been indoctrinated to hate

[dcashley]

C-A, have you read, "City of God" by St. Augistine? In it SAINT Augistine defines the starting point for the catholic doctrine, which they have only recently repudiated, that the Jews killed Christ. That was the beginning of anti-semitism...it subsequently infected everything the church did. Not only is the catholic church directly responsible for starting anti-semitism, it continued this behavior through the 1920's with articles published in their "official" magazine, the Acta Apostolicae Sedis.

As to hating the catholic church, nothing could be further from the truth. I was born and raised a catholic, and remained "true" to the faith until I found out that my Grandmother was Jewish and murdered by the Nazis. The only reason my parents were catholic was because they were afraid for their lives--even in the US. I do not hate the catholic church--I hate the hatred it has caused.

[ptsum]

Originally Posted by dcashley

C-A, have you read, "City of God" by St. Augistine? In it SAINT Augistine defines the starting point for the catholic doctrine, which they have only recently repudiated, that the Jews killed Christ. That was the beginning of anti-semitism...it subsequently infected everything the church did. Not only is the catholic church directly responsible for starting anti-semitism, it continued this behavior through the 1920's with articles published in their "official" magazine, the Acta Apostolicae Sedis.

As to hating the catholic church, nothing could be further from the truth. I was born and raised a catholic, and remained "true" to the faith until I found out that my Grandmother was Jewish and murdered by the Nazis. The only reason my parents were catholic was because they were afraid for their lives--even in the US. I do not hate the catholic church--I hate the hatred it has caused.

dcashley, if I may be permitted and I mean no disrespect to you or the memory of your grandmother, you need to get rid of that hatred, it will not bring back your grandmother and all it will do is eat you up inside, you say that you hate the hatred that it has caused and yet it has also caused the hatred within you, it's time to get rid of that and move on, believe me I know how you feel, as a Native American and as a member of the Tsalagi (Cherokee) my great grandmother and her people were on The Trail of Tears and lost some members of the family along the way, however I hold no hatred over this tragic situation, it's time to move on.

[reXteryalizer]

it's obvious that Pope Pius XII was …NO …enemy of the Nazis,

NO MORE than POPE Ratzinger was an enemy to the Nazis…

Hitler an X convict… & a criminal, charged & convicted of trying to violently overthrow the old German Government wrote a whole book CONDEMNING the JEWS, declaring they should be persecuted & thrown out of society…

Hitler { in his book [ ~~spoke harshly against the CURRENT religions `actions / of Rome & of Protestants ~as well for being good to the Jews..& for not… CONTINUING ON…to persecute them as viciously & forcefully ..

as THE CATHOLIC CHURCH…..HAD,,. been Persecuting & murdering the Jews for the last 2000 yrs…..?... Pius XII was another catholic spiritual PROSTITUE..., who signed a contract with this JEW HATER

THE POPE *& vatican SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH catholic HITLER

THIS CONTRACT WITH catholic HITLER demanded............."ALL GERMAN bishops SWEAR on the HOLY GOSPELS & ON GOD COMPLETE & LOYALITY to catholic HITLER

read ART. 16 OF ….Hitler's Concordat with the Catholic Church (1933)

[url=http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_ss33co.htm]CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Concordat with the German Reich (1933)[/url]

There is no ….way to prove.. He saved a million Jews….its all assumption./….& fantasy…junk history…Catholics rely on propaganda prostitute...,… Italian…catholic … news ~ papers ,,

& American…liberal…prostitute...,…organizations….lik e the NY Times….( what a Joke )…for their claims .

& other unfactual.,/ inventions….fantasy books.. & on the word of either ignorant or desperate…..people…( Jews at the time.. in an Anti semite ,satanic ,,Italy…..) .looking for acceptance back into Italian life after the war…

THEY WOULD HAVE SAID….anything…to be accepted in Italy….and given a hope for a halfway decent life…It is a sick joke..while they have no records of their claims….

The facts prove…He was completely publicly…SILENT…concerning the murder of Jews….by Germany & Catholic…..Italy…who { his RESPONSIBLE….NOBLE.. church….helped Hitler….Italy shipped out thousands,, of Jews…to be butchered…gassed,,,& put to death ,,,~!---,

the pope never said a word…to his faithful… RESPONSIBLE….Italians…At the end of the WAR…Italy…/ Rome hid a small percentage of Jews ..in Rome …….after Catholic Italy surrendered,,,…only to make themselves ,,,look good,,, after siding with, Helping in & fighting….along side with Germany..

They lost…

We only know of two individuals that Hitler killed personally, his wife Eva Braun, and himself. To kill ten million other people, Hitler needed millions of helpers.

He didn't get those helpers from Mars. He got about two thirds of them from the two thirds of Germans who belonged to the Protestant churches and the other third from the third of Germans who identified themselves as Roman Catholics.The Pope's first responsibility is to Christ and His Church …{.what a joke….

.THE ENTIRE….CHURCH….JOINED… Hitler all… of Italy….HIS CHURCH….joined the Nazis…..if he was responsible He would have begged for Italians…to not Join Hitler….*..& stop shipping out innocent….children men & woman to be tortured…responsibility to Christ and His Church ?...

.the catholic church is not Christ’s Church,,,…it is Satan’s…..hoaX...,…

Hitler was not the lone….monster….out killing all Jews….he had helpers….people in Italy…..Catholics….the POPES church….. GERMAN catholic head,,, bishops ordered …..[ by the pope ]…. to SWEAR on the HOLY GOSPELS & ON GOD COMPLETE & LOYALITY to catholic HITLER….

.Catholics in Germany, & italy,,, the POPES church~~ joined hitler… & the pope was more interested in remaining .,..in power…in his seat of satan …on His… RESPONSIBLE…..throne & popular.. ride….than interested.. in stopping the slaughter of innocent millions…..by His congregation members …

[reXteryalizer]

Futhermore

Italys Catholics ..........attacked.{ FOR NO REASON }.....…Greece.. & Ethiopia, Russia..~& other small countries……"

HIS CHURCH,, !

[ CATHOLIC… ,ITALIANS….were BUTCHERING,,,& SLAUGHTERING..their ..INNOCENT neighbors…JUST.....OVER power…./...and is was not his responsibility ,,,to demand they STOP ?

NO HE WAS COMPLETLY...SILENT....UNTILL JEWS & AMERICANS & BRITISH GOVERNMENT BEGGED THE POPE TO SAY SOMETHING.........



Nazis, catholics , protestants atheists * & ALL groups had victims / heros …of individuals…who refused to go along with the majority…of JEW KILLERS..


The Roman Catholic church has never, ever been a friend to the Jew….)( when in power.. NOR the bible believer

HITLER HAD 3 ARABIC ISLAMIC DIVISISIONS...IN HIS S.S///ARMY ..
.
Popes claim in catholic catechism 2 N.D. Editiion. # 841 that''

muslims;...these profess to hold the faith of abraham, and together with us [catholics]...they adore the one, merciful god, mankind's judge on the last day

MAY 1985 SATANS POPE John Paul II repeats ROMES DECLARATION TO AUDIENCE OF THOUSANDS
THE POPE said: “CATHOLICS Muslims, WE have MANY THINGS IN COMMON as BELIEVERS and as human beings...WE BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD

[url=http://www.letusreason.org/RC25.htm]The Roman Catholic Issue[/url] & [url=http://focusonjerusalem.com/tiesthatbind.html]Catholicism and Islam, “Ties That Bind”[/url]

,,,THE CATHOLIC GOD IS THE MUSLIM GOD

THATS WHY YOUR POPE CAN KISS & STROKE AND BOW TO THE UNHOLY QURAN

[url=http://images.google.com/images?q=photos%20%20of%20pope%20kissing%20quran&h l=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi]photos of pope kissing quran - Google Image Search[/url]

The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… as LOST. Headed for hell…

The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… ~~~as DESERVING of whatever punishment the POPES can manipulate their frenzied mobs of Catholics to perform…~~~at whatever point or bowel of history at any given time…possible.

The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… as serving ANOTHER EVIL JESUS….

Rome SAYS

'Heretics / NOT MEMBERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ….. DO NOT HOLD TO CATHOLIC DOCTRINE) & worship a GOD WHO IS A LIAR, & CHRIST WHO IS A LIAR.'

BUT Muslims & ISLAM //OOH they ALL SERVE OUR GOD…..and we Kiss and BOW down to their QURAN *& service ALLAH / satan

ROME HAS BURNED THOUSANDS OF BIBLES, translated in non italian.../,, claiming they were error...
burned people alive../ .hunted them down,,/ ,condemned,,& damned the translators.. & .banned their bibles...

but kisses the quran...saying it is the book of the,,,God of the bible...& all catholics.

This is the same …EXACT…...standard & SAME…..EXACT….situation of that of Pope Pius XII & his church,….allied with satan / Hitler & the the…. islamic…..Grand Mufti, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini….

[url=http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php]Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini[/url]

They all serve the same god….& hate the bible…hate Jews…& Gods people….& have proven it clearly……time & time again

~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.///////////~~~~~~~~~~~~~////////////~~~~~
~~~



If Catholics WISH to quote the scriblings of news papers & THE PRESS...{ FROM the past }~~.Why not ...

Read what the.......SPAINISH.....~~JUNK MEDIA.. { NEWS PAPER..}..=~~THE,~~~Press ~~UNDER...the Catholic, Spanish dictator, Franco, published on the 3rd of May, 1945, the day of Hitler's death.

It said,

"Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity." It is therefore understandable that words cannot be found to lament over his death,.................................."

Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr,
God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory."

This funeral oration of Adolph Hitler was voiced by the Holy See itself, under the cover of Franco's press. It is a communique of the Vatican via Madrid....

end of PRESS QUOTE............

IN FACT

ITALY WAS an evil facist...state durring the period when these news papers were praising your fraud Pope....

So Y,,....give them any credence at all

whatsoever......

BUT SHOULD YOU NOT.....REALIZE IT WAS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE....and be honest & face the FACTS.....

NEWSPAPERS..~are only as reliable...as HER CUSTOMERS allow HER TO BE......MOST ARE.....political...PROSTITUTES..

IN FACT

Hitler himself stated, "" "I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party.".....

[url=http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=49779&page=2]

Why did Hitler hate Slavs? - Page 2 - SciForums.com[/url]

& [url=http://www.thefreepressonline.co.uk/news/3/192.htm]So what's the good news in End Times Preaching? Alan Franklin provides the answer.[/url]

: Adoph Hitler said, "As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic church has adopted or fifteen hundred years,

when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews
were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I am doing Christianity a great service.",,........

FACT IS CATHOLICSIM IS NOT CHRISTIANITY.....& ITWILL NEVER BE....

"The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J S Conway pages 25 ,26 ,
and 162


your news paper quotes from a facist..murdering evil country who JOINED Hitler in torturing MILLIONS OF INNOCENT.....

only prove WHAT SEED.....YOU ARE FROM............YOU have no.....TRUTH..

[Currency Pair Crocodile]

<guzzles his mug of evening coffee>

<beats a hasty retreat to the gym>

[dcashley]

Originally Posted by reXteryalizer

it's obvious that Pope Pius XII was …NO …enemy of the Nazis,

Did you see what Sanspur posted above: These Photos tell it all.

[Currency Pair Crocodile]

Originally Posted by dcashley

Did you see what Sanspur posted above: These Photos tell it all.

Did you even bother to read ptsum's message?

You still believe in propaganda? Seems your hate is stronger than the urge for reconciliation.

You simply cherish the idea of vilifying the catholic church.

It's like the boy who found his pet turtle dead. His father consoled him and promised to give the turtle a fitting funeral.

So, dad and son set to work on the rituals and dug out a nice, tiny hole in the backyard. Everything was going in full swing, and the burial was about to be done, when the turtle slowly moved.

The overjoyed father told his son that the turtle might be alive after all.

But the boy paused a while, he took a long hard look at all the things they had done all afternoon in the backyard, and he said, "let's kill the turtle, i want to bury it"

[dcashley]

Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis

Did you even bother to read ptsum's message?

You still believe in propaganda? Seems your hate is stronger than the urge for reconciliation.

You simply cherish the idea of vilifying the catholic church.

It's like the boy who found his pet turtle dead. His father consoled him and promised to give the turtle a fitting funeral.

So, dad and son set to work on the rituals and dug out a nice, tiny hole in the backyard. Everything was going in full swing, and the burial was about to be done, when the turtle slowly moved.

The overjoyed father told his son that the turtle might be alive after all.

But the boy paused a while, he took a long hard look at all the things they had done all afternoon in the backyard, and he said, "let's kill the turtle, i want to bury it"

You don't know me...for you or ptsum to decide that I have hate in my heart is unfounded. However, I do have a strong desire for those who write history to be accurate about the catholic complicity for the holocaust. This includes Pius XII.

You said you read the hagigographic (spelling) bios of Pius XII...look up that word, Hagialg.... You will find that it describes a highly biased form of biographical writing.