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Old 04-08-2009, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,176,909 times
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For theists it's thinking in a box for fear of "thinking about the wrong things" that will be punished. Also peer pressure has an influence.
Most atheists have no borders to confine thinking.
It's not a matter of intelligence, but of using or not using intellectual abilities.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:21 AM
 
Location: California
593 posts, read 1,794,067 times
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It's the only explanation they can come up with to give them a reason to reject biblical truths...Scripture says "only a fool says there's no God!"....I've always thought it was more to do with their pride issue...You know, nothing can be smarter than me....:>) I'm a thinker and a Christian and it all started with a step of faith!
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,701,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazel Eyes View Post
It's the only explanation they can come up with to give them a reason to reject biblical truths...Scripture says "only a fool says there's no God!"....I've always thought it was more to do with their pride issue...You know, nothing can be smarter than me....:>) I'm a thinker and a Christian and it all started with a step of faith!
Applause! Rightly so.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:27 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,499,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
Again, this just makes no sense.

Noone becomes an intellectual because they are atheist. Most of the atheists are like theists from various walks of life.

It's just that some intellectuals tend to become atheist.

It's also just that some intellectuals tend to remain theist.

Will this disappoint you guys? Atheism is not the road to intellectual height, never will be. Only individual talent leads to intellect.

This is getting interesting. First, we suck at sex. Now we suck at intellect. What's next? LOL.
"The paper - which was co-written with John Harvey, who does not report a university affiliation, and Helmuth Nyborg, of the University of Aarhus, Denmark - cites studies including a 1990s survey that found that only 7 per cent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God. A survey of fellows of the Royal Society found that only 3.3 per cent believed in God at a time when a poll reported that 68.5 per cent of the general UK population were believers."

Times Higher Education - High IQ turns academics into atheists

Scientific American, September 1999
"Scientists and Religion in America"
"Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor this belief in religion and merely 10 % of those who are considered 'eminent' scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife."

Nature, 394(6691):313, 23 July 1998
"Leading Scientists Still Reject God"
A recent survey of members of the National Academy of Sciences showed that 72% are outright atheists, 21% are agnostic and only 7% admit to belief in a personal God.

Skeptic, vol.6 #2 1998
"Do You Believe in God?"
. 1969 Hirschi and Stark found no correlation in lawbreaking by churchgoing children and non-churchgoing children.
This same Skeptic published the results of another study that compared professions and likelihood of believing in God. The general public was just over 90% likely to believe in God. Scientists in general were just under 40% likely. Mathematicians were just over 40% likely, biologists just under 30%, and physicists were barely over 20% likely to believe in God.

The following is a review of several studies of IQ and religiosity, paraphrased and summarized from Burnham Beckwith's article, "The Effect of Intelligence on Religious Faith," Free Inquiry, Spring 1986: (1)

Studies of Students

Thomas Howells, 1927
Study of 461 students showed religiously conservative students "are, in general, relatively inferior in intellectual ability."

Hilding Carlsojn, 1933
Study of 215 students showed that "there is a tendency for the more intelligent undergraduate to be sympathetic toward… atheism."

Abraham Franzblau, 1934
Confirming Howells and Carlson, tested 354 Jewish children, aged 10-16. Found a negative correlation between religiosity and IQ as measured by the Terman intelligence test.

Thomas Symington, 1935
Tested 400 young people in colleges and church groups. He reported, "There is a constant positive relation in all the groups between liberal religious thinking and mental ability… There is also a constant positive relation between liberal scores and intelligence…"

Vernon Jones, 1938
Tested 381 students, concluding "a slight tendency for intelligence and liberal attitudes to go together."

Donald Gragg, 1942
Reported an inverse correlation between 100 ACE freshman test scores and Thurstone "reality of god" scores.

Brown and Love, 1951
At the University of Denver, tested 613 male and female students. The mean test scores of non-believers was 119 points, and for believers it was 100. The non-believers ranked in the 80th percentile, and believers in the 50th. Their findings "strongly corroborate those of Howells."

Michael Argyle, 1958
Concluded that "although intelligent children grasp religious concepts earlier, they are also the first to doubt the truth of religion, and intelligent students are much less likely to accept orthodox beliefs."

Young, Dustin and Holtzman, 1966
Average religiosity decreased as GPA rose.

C. Plant and E. Minium, 1967
The more intelligent students were less religious, both before entering college and after 2 years of college.

Robert Wuthnow, 1978
Of 532 students, 37 percent of Christians, 58 percent of apostates, and 53 percent of non-religious scored above average on SATs.

Norman Poythress, 1975
Mean SATs for strongly anti-religious (1148), moderately anti-religious (1119), slightly anti-religious (1108), and religious (1022).

Wiebe and Fleck, 1980
Studied 158 male and female Canadian university students. They reported "nonreligious S's tended to be strongly intelligent" and "more intelligent than religious S's."

Rose Goldsen, 1952
Percentage of students who believe in a divine god: Harvard 30; UCLA 32; Dartmouth 35; Yale 36; Cornell 42; Wayne 43; Weslyan 43; Michigan 45; Fisk 60; Texas 62; North Carolina 68.

National Review Study, 1970
Percentage of students who believe in a Spirit or Divine God: Reed 15; Brandeis 25; Sarah Lawrence 28; Williams 36; Stanford 41; Boston U. 41; Yale 42; Howard 47; Indiana 57; Davidson 59; S. Carolina 65; Marquette 77.



Terman, 1959
Studied group with IQ's over 140. Of men, 10 percent held strong religious belief, of women 18 percent. Sixty-two percent of men and 57 percent of women claimed "little religious inclination" while 28 percent of the men and 23 percent of the women claimed it was "not at all important."

Southern and Plant, 1968
Studied 42 male and 30 female members of Mensa. Mensa members were much less religious in belief than the typical American college alumnus or adult.



Lehman and Witty, 1931
Identified 1189 scientists found in both Who's Who (1927) and American Men of Science (1927). Only 25 percent of those listed in the latter and 50 percent of those in the former reported their religious denomination, despite the specific request to do so, under the heading of "religious denomination (if any)." Well over 90 percent of the general population claims religious affiliation. The figure of 25 percent suggests far less religiosity among scientists.


Kelley and Fisk, 1951
Found a negative (-.39) correlation between the strength of religious values and research competence. [How these were measured is unknown.]

Ann Roe, 1953
Interviewed 64 "eminent scientists, nearly all members of the prestigious National Academy of Sciences or the American Philosophical Society. She reported that, while nearly all of them had religious parents and had attended Sunday school, 'now only three of these men are seriously active in church. A few others attend upon occasion, or even give some financial support to a church which they do not attend… All the others have long since dismissed religion as any guide to them, and the church plays no part in their lives… A few are militantly atheistic, but most are just not interested.'"

Francis Bello, 1954
Interviewed or questionnaired 107 nonindustrial scientists under the age of 40 judged by senior colleagues to be outstanding. Of the 87 responses, 45 percent claimed to be "agnostic or atheistic" and an additional 22 percent claimed no religious affiliation. For 20 most eminent, "the proportion who are now a-religious is considerably higher than in the entire survey group."

Jack Chambers, 1964
Questionnaired 740 US psychologists and chemists. He reported, "The highly creative men… significantly more often show either no preference for a particular religion or little or no interest in religion." Found that the most eminent psychologists showed 40 percent no preference, 16 percent for the most eminent chemists.

Vaughan, Smith, and Sjoberg, 1965
Polled 850 US physicists, zoologists, chemical engineers, and geologists listed in American Men of Science (1955) on church membership, and attendance patterns, and belief in afterlife. Of the 642 replies, 38.5 percent did not believe in an afterlife, whereas 31.8 percent did. Belief in immortality was less common among major university staff than among those employed by business, government, or minor universities. The Gallup poll taken about this time showed that two-thirds of the U.S. population believed in an afterlife, so scientists were far less religious than the typical adult.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:37 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,499,484 times
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This whole debate illustrates how differently theist and atheist find out about the world around them.

When something isn't known, Atheist look at the available data and try to find the best evidence to objectively solve the riddle. Theist rely on faith, and ignore the objective data.

Theism is intellectually lazy. It tries to cut corners in the pursuit of knowledge. Instead of relying on empirical test and logic, it asks for faith in the statistically unlikely. That's easy, but it's not accurate. That's why there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and IQ. One needs a sloppy mind to accept the evidence that religion uses to support it's arguments.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:50 AM
 
63,750 posts, read 40,011,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
This whole debate illustrates how differently theist and atheist find out about the world around them.

When something isn't known, Atheist look at the available data and try to find the best evidence to objectively solve the riddle. Theist rely on faith, and ignore the objective data.

Theism is intellectually lazy. It tries to cut corners in the pursuit of knowledge. Instead of relying on empirical test and logic, it asks for faith in the statistically unlikely. That's easy, but it's not accurate. That's why there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and IQ. One needs a sloppy mind to accept the evidence that religion uses to support it's arguments.
It is a sloppy mind that confuses theism and religion (religiosity) . . . but most atheists do it. Apparently most atheists are actually A-Religionists . . . NOT A-Theists. Indeed . . . an intellectually lazy and very sloppy mind to make such a simple mistake so frequently.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,518 posts, read 37,111,020 times
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I agree with boxcar... Free thought is certainly not a strength of the religious, in fact it is most often discouraged. I was educated in Christian schools for the first ten years, and you cannot imagine the trouble I got into when I questioned anything to do with the doctrine I was taught...Free thinking is necessary to grow in intelligence, and religion stifles free thought.

"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance... logic can be happily tossed out the window".
Stephen King
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:00 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,499,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is a sloppy mind that confuses theism and religion (religiosity) . . . but most atheists do it. Apparently most atheists are actually A-Religionists . . . NOT A-Theists. Indeed . . . an intellectually lazy and very sloppy mind to make such a simple mistake so frequently.

That seems like a pretty weak response. Other than sophistry, do you have a point? The part of my quote you highlighted is a non-sequitur from your comment.
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:07 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,499,484 times
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There are many ways to find the answer the question, "where do humans come from?" One of the least reliable is to simply believe what is in your heart, or what is written in 2000 year old text. It doesn't matter which religion you are using, if the way you answer that question is by reference to 2000 year old science and the feeling you have in your heart, you've forfeited logic for faith.

So it's not a question of what you believe, so much as how you believe.
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,779,580 times
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Because we are.
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