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Old 04-10-2009, 03:23 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,216 posts, read 2,261,028 times
Reputation: 163

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
elwill; good to see you!

As has been carefully defined by evolutionary biologists, evolution is simply the process by which different species have arisen over time, in response to available niches. PS: do you understand niches; just curious.

But rigid fundamentalist Christians persist in combining evolution with the initial origins of life. For that, even if we might better define the physical origins of our universe in the future , that in no way prevents there being a possible "supreme being".

But... many evolutionists do not believe in such a being for some logical reasons. Most, if not all, of the literal interpretations of the bible have been absolutely disproved by the relentless logic of the scientific method. If we see those biblical stories to be untrue, or to be simply fables useful as a guide for ethical living, why then should we still honor the remaining concept of a Creator, who is also defined by that same book?
good to see you either , rifleman
i appereciate your responding

mainly , i agree with every word you said here , but you say that the problem is in the bible . and the bible represent just one cult of theism religions
do you get my point , i don't think that it's wise to deal with entire thiests referenced to christianity and the bible

my problem is that you (athiests ) find problems with theism beliefs to believe in unseen God , while the unseen God not your main problem , i think that your main problem is the bible .
do you agree with me ?

Quote:
http://www.avanquest.com/USA/images/24064_tcm8-35090.jpg (broken link)

My "faith" is in the proven reliability of the science toolbox, which has placed the Mars Rover Lander into orbit around Mars within less than one second of accuracy...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...er_drawing.gif


...and which has come up with elegant dating methods to age old artifacts...

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Pa...s/image275.gif

...which has come up with many medical miracles...

http://www.hamrodharana.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/2.jpg (broken link)

...and which has created the very computer and world-wide communication system you and I use right now to talk..

http://www.itvpartner.com/network/i/12_wan.jpg
i share you your faith in all of that


Quote:
Why is it suddenly so much in error when it investigates the evidence for evolution and an old old earth? That selective acceptance is illogical, while evolution is just common sense now, especially when we know the exact mechanisms by which it works, and can demonstrate them in the lab.
you are talking bout bible again , right ?
i think that you know i'm muslim
such discussions should to be forward to christians not theist , your cult is relying on the facts , so that you have to realize the fact that christianity not represent the entire theist beliefs , and this is the forum of all religions not just the christianity

what about if my religion in agreement with the mechanisms of the universe and the mechanisms of our creation ? . what if my religion is in agreement with the investigations of the old of the earth , will it make sense to you why muslims trust thier book ?

by the way i'm in full agreement with your statement That selective acceptance is illogical

 
Old 04-10-2009, 03:39 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,712 posts, read 13,439,515 times
Reputation: 4317
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
hi GCSTroop , thank you for your valuable thoughts , it's great post .
thanxx

i havn't thoughts of our athiest friends yet , are they agree that evolution have nothing to do with God being exist or not ?
Hi elwill,

Your welcome.

I can only speak for myself, not for every Atheist, or even for any other Atheist but I agree that evolution has nothing to do with whether or not God exists. It's simply a process the scientific community has grown to understand the origins and formations of the complexity and diversity of life on this planet.

Let me put it to you this way:

If I woke up tomorrow and felt the divine hand of a God interacting in my life and I became a believer it would not change my mind or my opinion in any way shape or form as to the factual science behind the mechanisms, history and research that has developed the robust science of studying allele changes over time.

If I were in that situation, I may be more prone to saying that I felt that particular God guided the evolution of life on this planet but it wouldn't change my mind in the slightest as to the reality of it.

It's the reasoning behind places like the Institute for Creation Research and Answers in Genesis that make me loathe them with a passion. They are dishonest, lacking everything in scientific research and just flat out wrong about almost everything they propose or publish. They do so because they know that people are, on average, un-educated or perhaps even ignorant to not only evolution but to science and the scientific method in general. It's easy to take advantage of a person's ignorance and use it to make a profit.

If you ask me, they are despicable and detestable organizations designed, no pun intended, to fish the money out of the ignorant portions of the population for their own gain and infect their same brand of stupidity in the school sytems across this country and around the world. It is, in my opinion, pathetically sad that what spawned out of the minds of a bunch of redneck turn-of-the-20th-century fundamentalists has taken such a grassroots following in this country and a few other parts of the world simply because it's something "the church has never liked the idea of."

Thinking evolution would threaten one's own faith or saying that it holds the potential to destroy one's faith seems to me to be the excuse given by those who are weak in their faith. It's no less ridiculous than saying gravity or a heliocentric universe threatens someone's faith. It's science. That's it. There's absolutely nothing threatening about it except to those who try to make their living pandering to the ignorant masses by telling them it threatens their faith.
 
Old 04-10-2009, 04:44 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,491,140 times
Reputation: 1775
The OP question is one for the creationist to answer, not the evolutionist. Because for some reason, the creationist tend to fight against evolution. One would assume this is primarily because it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
 
Old 04-11-2009, 02:44 AM
 
378 posts, read 624,739 times
Reputation: 147
The theory of evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with the existence of God. The theory of evolution is an idea to explain why animal species are diverse. If you want to find out about the theory of evolution, you should ask an evolutionary biologist. If you want to find out about God, ask a theologian. They are two different subjects.

The only time evolution theory contradicts God is if you believe God created creatures in their present form.
 
Old 04-11-2009, 03:32 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,216 posts, read 2,261,028 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17271 View Post
The only time evolution theory contradicts God is if you believe God created creatures in their present form.
what do you mean by thier present form?
 
Old 04-11-2009, 03:45 AM
 
378 posts, read 624,739 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
what do you mean by thier present form?
How you see the species today.
 
Old 04-11-2009, 04:54 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,216 posts, read 2,261,028 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17271 View Post
How you see the species today.

you said
The only time evolution theory contradicts God is if you believe God created creatures in their present form.

i just wanted explenation , i believe that God created in the same form
the first monkey was in the form of monkey and the first snake was in the form of snake and the first bird was in the form of bird ........etc

so that i believe that God created creatures in thier presesnt form
may be
am i misunderstood you ?
 
Old 04-11-2009, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,331 posts, read 2,834,267 times
Reputation: 259
Dear fellow scientific enthusiasts,

Speaking from Hegel's point of view, does evolution have something to do with winning a war. That way creatures are irrelevant to the presence of justice in the perception of reality. Reality will be unjust so much anyway and then value in surpassing being is just value neutral INJUSTICE. If we lose a war then justice demands perception be understood neither just nor injust. All ceatures are in their present form because God chose so; not Man.
 
Old 04-11-2009, 07:44 AM
 
4,511 posts, read 7,508,121 times
Reputation: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
Dear fellow scientific enthusiasts,

Speaking from Hegel's point of view, does evolution have something to do with winning a war. That way creatures are irrelevant to the presence of justice in the perception of reality. Reality will be unjust so much anyway and then value in surpassing being is just value neutral INJUSTICE. If we lose a war then justice demands perception be understood neither just nor injust. All ceatures are in their present form because God chose so; not Man.

!
meaning if we only could convey our movements between mind and matter more appropriately and honestly..

(?)
 
Old 04-11-2009, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,331 posts, read 2,834,267 times
Reputation: 259
Default Effort dear effort.

.. There is only the ever higher stages of the Self-thinking Idea.
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