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Old 04-20-2009, 11:48 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Why is church history not taught in churches? I am aware you can go to seminary for that, but why is there not an importance placed on learning and knowing church history even in Bible studies? I've noticed that with some pastors/preachers, they will appeal to church history WHEN it suits their message. Often, the mention comes up when there is a story to be told about some brave martyr who died for Christ or brave Reformers. That's often about it.

I also notice that there are pastors who have gone through seminary who are aware of "dirty little secrets" about church history, from how the Biblical canon came about to how Christianity itself rose to power and prominence. Would this information create too much doubt concerning everything else cherished by so many in the Christian faith?
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:52 AM
 
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Some churches do teach it.

The problem is, we've usually only got a 30 minute sermon a week plus maybe an hour for Sunday school for most churches. Some throw in a Sunday night service or a Wednesday service...but the majority of church-goers don't attend anything more than Sunday morning.

Most churches would prefer to use Sunday morning for Bible instruction. I don't think it has anything to do with "dirty little secrets".

Having said that, I've seen enough fluffy Sunday school classes done on "being an encourager", it might be a good idea to do a series on church history.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Why is church history not taught in churches? I am aware you can go to seminary for that, but why is there not an importance placed on learning and knowing church history even in Bible studies? I've noticed that with some pastors/preachers, they will appeal to church history WHEN it suits their message. Often, the mention comes up when there is a story to be told about some brave martyr who died for Christ or brave Reformers. That's often about it.

I also notice that there are pastors who have gone through seminary who are aware of "dirty little secrets" about church history, from how the Biblical canon came about to how Christianity itself rose to power and prominence. Would this information create too much doubt concerning everything else cherished by so many in the Christian faith?
First of all, there really aren't "dirty little secrets" regarding the canonization of the Bible. That's the stuff books like The DaVinci Code are made of, but it's much ado over nothing.

Second, I'd venture a guess that the absence of Church History teaching in most churches is due to a combination of two things: 1. The Pastor is not educated in church history. 2. The people don't have the interest.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:09 PM
 
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Simple.

Because to be steeped in church history, and church fathers, is to cease to be Protestant.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DNick View Post
Simple.

Because to be steeped in church history, and church fathers, is to cease to be Protestant.

I'd disagree with you on that one. There were things the ECFs didn't quite have right. Jesus never said he'd appoint infallible teachers--he only said his church wouldn't fail.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
I'd disagree with you on that one. There were things the ECFs didn't quite have right. Jesus never said he'd appoint infallible teachers--he only said his church wouldn't fail.
What about bread and wine physically becoming his flesh and blood. Please show a early church father that disagreed on that. And that is ESSENTIAL.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:39 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
First of all, there really aren't "dirty little secrets" regarding the canonization of the Bible.
Thus you prove the need to know Church history. Then again, you are right to a degree. The information is actually out there and is really no secret. It's just not common knowledge.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:42 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Some churches do teach it.

The problem is, we've usually only got a 30 minute sermon a week plus maybe an hour for Sunday school for most churches. Some throw in a Sunday night service or a Wednesday service...but the majority of church-goers don't attend anything more than Sunday morning.
You got a point there.

Quote:
Most churches would prefer to use Sunday morning for Bible instruction. I don't think it has anything to do with "dirty little secrets".
You have a point here too.

Quote:
Having said that, I've seen enough fluffy Sunday school classes done on "being an encourager", it might be a good idea to do a series on church history.
That's good. I wonder, however, can you remain a bible thumping Christian after learning all there is about it? Not saying you are now per se.
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Old 04-20-2009, 01:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post

That's good. I wonder, however, can you remain a bible thumping Christian after learning all there is about it? Not saying you are now per se.
Are you suggesting that there is anything that I'd learn that WOULDN'T allow me to remain a "bible thumping Christian"? Mind you, I got no problem with being called a Bible-thumper.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DNick View Post
What about bread and wine physically becoming his flesh and blood. Please show a early church father that disagreed on that. And that is ESSENTIAL.

How's about showing a disciple or Jesus teaching that it did?
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
How's about showing a disciple or Jesus teaching that it did?
Matthew 26

26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body." 27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you;
28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.



Mark 14

22While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is My body." 23And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
24And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.



Luke 22


19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

John 6

49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

1 Corinthians 11

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.



Okay then.

Your turn
Find me an early church father who denies it. Written before 500ad
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