U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-05-2009, 02:22 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,333,085 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
How true, but I am guessing that in the 1600's when the KJV was translated, in no way did they infer an asteroid and yes a volcano is the likely culprit. It is a mountain that burns and they did not have words for volcano in the original text or maybe that archaic Greek word was it.

You are pretty much stretching the text to fit your doctrine. All references in Greek G3735 refer to mounts or mountains NOT asteroids. If this were to be a "falling star" they would have used STAR as the word, not mountain.

But like all theists, you try and make the evidence fit the conclusion.
I'm not stretching the text at all, I'm just looking a the best description that fits the text, and a volcano is much more of a stretch. Of course, you must believe that, because you do not believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. So naturally a human explanation is required. The fact is, an Asteroid is not a falling star, and a volcano does not fly through the air either. Only an Asteroid would appear as a great burning mountain that was flying in the air. I base my conclusion on the evidence, you base your conclusion on your personal belief, while attempting to explain away the evidence.

The Bible is a very interesting Book, because it appears to me that enought evidence was placed in it so people who want to believe will, and people who don't want to believe it, won't. It appears the Bible is written in a way that aids non-believers in their deniability. It's as if the Book was written in a way to give a non-believer a wayout. Of course it is the wrong way, yet for a non-believer anyway will do. That's just an observation on my part.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-05-2009, 03:06 AM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,228,106 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
I'm not stretching the text at all, I'm just looking a the best description that fits the text, and a volcano is much more of a stretch.
No textual criticism says you are wrong.
Quote:
Of course, you must believe that, because you do not believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. So naturally a human explanation is required.
Who says I believe any of your myths? Maybe you can go back a few posts and tell us exactly which translation is the "inspired word of your god?"
Quote:
The fact is, an Asteroid is not a falling star, and a volcano does not fly through the air either. Only an Asteroid would appear as a great burning mountain that was flying in the air.
Let us look at your word cast/throw shall we?
G906 βάλλω ballō bal'-lo
A primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense): - arise, cast (out), X dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust. Compare G4496.
Some pretty variances of possible translations.
G4496 ῥίπτω rhiptō̄ hrip'-to
A primary verb (perhaps rather akin to the base of G4474, through the idea of sudden motion); to fling (properly with a quick toss, thus differing from G906, which denotes a deliberate hurl; and from τείνω teinō (see in G1614), which indicates an extended projection); by qualification, to deposit (as if a load); by extension to disperse: - cast (down, out), scatter abroad, throw.
It seems there is no implication of flying in from space in the possible translations. I am sure you will examine all the nuances in the Greek language further to see that there is NO inference to space or asteroids.
Quote:
I base my conclusion on the evidence, you base your conclusion on your personal belief, while attempting to explain away the evidence.
What evidence? All we have seen so far is your conclusions NOT based on any evidence of the original texts.

BTW what is my personal belief?
Quote:
The Bible is a very interesting Book, because it appears to me that enought evidence was placed in it so people who want to believe will, and people who don't want to believe it, won't. It appears the Bible is written in a way that aids non-believers in their deniability. It's as if the Book was written in a way to give a non-believer a wayout. Of course it is the wrong way, yet for a non-believer anyway will do. That's just an observation on my part.
Well there you have just disproved inerrancy and contradicted yourself quite eloquently. If two people can read the same text and come away with two different meanings, then it stands to reason that the bible is not inerrant.

But this is off topic anyway. The OP is about creation of anything else outside our galaxy being mentioned in the bible at the time it was written. Well based on the evidence thus far, they were not. Now you are trying to fit modern cosmology into an archaic language just to try and fit your doctrine/theology.

At the time of the writing, circa 70-120 CE, the view was geocentric and was so for a very long time thereafter. Only once the telescope was "invented" did the cosmos get studied and planets were discovered. Since the Hubble telescope was commissioned, much more of of the cosmos has opened up and revised older theories. Not to mention radio telescopes gathering non visible data.

It is a lame idea to even contemplate the writers of the bible knew anything like we know today and we still do not know everything. All that theists are doing is trying to make the archaic writings of yore fit modern science and sadly this fails miserably and is laughable at best.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2009, 04:03 AM
 
995 posts, read 802,221 times
Reputation: 115
Explain this : The Quran mentions that Iron is of galactic origin ie not from this earth.

[57:25] "We sent aforetime Our messengers with clear signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of right and wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down iron, in (material for Mighty war), as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of strength, exalted in Might (And able to enforce His Will).”

New scientific discovery has revealed that the metal iron was not created or formed from earth or earth material at all. Iron was sent by burning stars traveling through space that had collided with earth. When those stars collided with earth and their melted metals cooled down and changed from liquid burned/melted metals to hard solid metals, they formed the metal of what we call today iron.
Notice that the verse above, Allah says clearly "We sent down iron...." and He didn't say "We created iron from earth....“. This clearly states that iron was created outside the earth and was brought down by the]Will of Allah Almighty for a purpose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2009, 04:16 AM
 
2,256 posts, read 3,437,152 times
Reputation: 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Explain this : The Quran mentions that Iron is of galactic origin ie not from this earth.

[57:25] "We sent aforetime Our messengers with clear signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of right and wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down iron, in (material for Mighty war), as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of strength, exalted in Might (And able to enforce His Will).”

New scientific discovery has revealed that the metal iron was not created or formed from earth or earth material at all. Iron was sent by burning stars traveling through space that had collided with earth. When those stars collided with earth and their melted metals cooled down and changed from liquid burned/melted metals to hard solid metals, they formed the metal of what we call today iron.
Notice that the verse above, Allah says clearly "We sent down iron...." and He didn't say "We created iron from earth....“. This clearly states that iron was created outside the earth and was brought down by the]Will of Allah Almighty for a purpose.
So Allah actually purposed that there be bloodshed & butchering down here on Earth from the very beginning

Well, this would certainly explain all the ongoing kaos in some of the world's war torn regions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2009, 04:32 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 2,613,406 times
Reputation: 453
The bible says "In the begining God created the heavens and the earth". This is refering to the creation of everything out there, the solar system, the universe and the earth. This wording means that God created everything. The bible was written for man, so reference to man's position is given. Namely that God created the earth he stands upon and everything out there.

Scripture goes on to say "And God said 'Let there be light', and there was light". This is not just the light of the sun that God created, this is the very existance of light itself. God created light before he lit a single star in the vastness of space. After this God created the earth, then the sun, moon and then stars. So, according to biblical chronology, the earth is older then the stars, and the sun and the moon.

Of course, if you read the bible, all land dwelling animals were created on day six of the creation week. That is, dinosaurs like the T-Rex and the suropods were created on the same day as man. So, the history that the bible gives is very different then the History that man gives. Which are you going to believe?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2009, 04:38 AM
 
995 posts, read 802,221 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
So Allah actually purposed that there be bloodshed & butchering down here on Earth from the very beginning

Well, this would certainly explain all the ongoing kaos in some of the world's war torn regions.
Ahh...what do you think the Israelites under prophets Moses & the other prophets were using as material when fighting their wars? Clay?

Ohh and you 'convieniently' left out the remaining passage 'as well as many benefits for mankind' - after all iron does play an in important role in civilisation right? That figures....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2009, 04:42 AM
 
995 posts, read 802,221 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
The bible says "In the begining God created the heavens and the earth". This is refering to the creation of everything out there, the solar system, the universe and the earth. This wording means that God created everything. The bible was written for man, so reference to man's position is given. Namely that God created the earth he stands upon and everything out there.

Scripture goes on to say "And God said 'Let there be light', and there was light". This is not just the light of the sun that God created, this is the very existance of light itself. God created light before he lit a single star in the vastness of space. After this God created the earth, then the sun, moon and then stars. So, according to biblical chronology, the earth is older then the stars, and the sun and the moon.

Of course, if you read the bible, all land dwelling animals were created on day six of the creation week. That is, dinosaurs like the T-Rex and the suropods were created on the same day as man. So, the history that the bible gives is very different then the History that man gives. Which are you going to believe?
The Quran mentions the Big Bang :
“Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder”
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2009, 04:43 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 2,613,406 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
I'm not stretching the text at all, I'm just looking a the best description that fits the text, and a volcano is much more of a stretch. Of course, you must believe that, because you do not believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. So naturally a human explanation is required. The fact is, an Asteroid is not a falling star, and a volcano does not fly through the air either. Only an Asteroid would appear as a great burning mountain that was flying in the air. I base my conclusion on the evidence, you base your conclusion on your personal belief, while attempting to explain away the evidence.

The Bible is a very interesting Book, because it appears to me that enought evidence was placed in it so people who want to believe will, and people who don't want to believe it, won't. It appears the Bible is written in a way that aids non-believers in their deniability. It's as if the Book was written in a way to give a non-believer a wayout. Of course it is the wrong way, yet for a non-believer anyway will do. That's just an observation on my part.
I think Campbell, that most people just deny the bible. I don't think that it can lead anyone in any direction other than to the cross of Jesus Christ. It is just that most people read a few things and say to themselves, "this is not possible", so they reject the entire document. But I have found that the more I study the bible and the world around us, all the things that I used to think impossible with my mind is actually possible (that is impossible things happen every day in our daily lives). So, I have to say in the end that the wild things that the bible claims can be true.

I think that the bible is a path that lead up to God. Most people look at the incline and decide to sit still, while others attempt to make the climb and as they do they see the bigger picture as they climb the mountain and the vastness of the horizon and all the glories of Gods creation until they behold God himself. But the other is still in the pit and denying this bible as being true, yet never really taking a step in the climb.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2009, 04:44 AM
 
2,256 posts, read 3,437,152 times
Reputation: 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Ahh...what do you think the Israelites under prophets Moses & the other prophets were using as material when fighting their wars? Clay?

Ohh and you 'convieniently' left out the remaining passage 'as well as many benefits for mankind' - after all iron does play an in important role in civilisation right? That figures....
Are'nt the Israelites your brothers
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2009, 04:49 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 2,613,406 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
The Quran mentions the Big Bang :
“Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder”
The Qu'ran is a useless document. It is poorly written in an archaic language that no one even understands today. Even the clerics can barley make out what Mohammad was attempting to say. So, you can interperet it to say whatever you want.

There is no such thing as the big bang, so to have a false document support a false theory is not that big a deal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top