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They get the same response everyone else gets - a view through a side window of my 80-pound dog frothing at the mouth, barking his head off at them. I then try to loudly (noisy dog), yet politely, explain that I simply cannot and will not open the door to someone I don't know. Thus far, everyone has gone away and those who don't get threatened with a phone call to the police.
No, I didn't overlook anything. As Christians we are to be "Christ-like"; in fact, the post I was responding to was implying that treatment of Mormonism by Christians is somehow less than Christ-like, and I was making the point that it would be Christ-like to judge hypocrites and deceivers, since Christ Himself did so. Perhaps you don't understand that about Christianity.
One thing I understand about Christianity is that the followers of Jesus Christ are commanded not to wrongly judge others, because the way they judge their brothers and sisters is the way judgment will be meted out to them at the appropriate time.
The judgment of Christ was perfect, so it was righteous for him to speak against the doctrines of the Sadducees for example because they taught that there would be no resurrection. But I do not believe that the judgment of Johnny Somebody from Bergen County Somewhere is perfect. That surely is obvious to me at least because as a Mormon of forty years I know from long experience that the slander you sling against us is not true. If Mormonism was not good and of God I would not be a Latter-day Saint.
Yeah, well, I don't really care what "board members" think or take issue with if it's not in line with God's Word. As for my accusation that Mormons tell lies, I stand by that, but I'll clarify to say that I believe many of them are merely repeating the lie they have been deceived to believe as true. Still, it's a lie, and still, they spread that lie. In fact, Mormonism comes down to the most basic anti-Christian lie that there is, the very lie that caused Lucifer to fall from Grace and become Satan, and that is the lie that man can be, as Lucifer desired, "like the Most High". Same lie, different packaging.
You seem to have a callous disregard for everyone except yourself and your own (false) interpretation of scripture and what it means to be a humble follower of Jesus Christ.
God has commanded us to strive for PERFECTION. What kind of perfection? EVEN AS (the same as) OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN!
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5: 48
"The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. And why beholdest thou (Johnny) the mote that is in thy brother’s eye (Mormons), but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" Luke 6: 40-41
You have misinterpreted the scriptures Johnny. There are many more that urge us to become as much as possible like our Father in Heaven. We are to follow the example set by that perfect one, even Jesus the Christ.
"For the perfecting of the saints.... unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"
It is possible that you are sincere in your beliefs Johnny, but it is obvious that you wrest the scriptures to justify your anger and hatred towards certain other followers of Jesus Christ whom you have judged harshly and wrongly. I fear for you, you are caught in a lie of your own choosing and have ceased to manifest the love of Jesus Christ for all of God's children, and the humility that is the mark of a true Christian.
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you."
There are numerous scriptures indicating that man (a literal son or daughter of Heavenly Parents) has the potential to 'grow up' and become as are the parents of their spirit bodies:
Topical Guide: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/m/29 - broken link)
Fair enough, although I don't think it would do you much good. Most of us have heard most of the arguments you might introduce so many times it's not even funny. I have a feeling you could not possibly come up with anything that Justamere and I haven't heard a million times.
Likewise, I've heard the religious arguments since childhood. But I don't actively seek out believers to turn.
One thing I understand about Christianity is that the followers of Jesus Christ are commanded not to wrongly judge others, because the way they judge their brothers and sisters is the way judgment will be meted out to them at the appropriate time.
So where have I not judged righteously? I'm simply going by what God's Word says; it's not even my own judgment but God's judgment, as found in His Word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
The judgment of Christ was perfect, so it was righteous for him to speak against the doctrines of the Sadducees for example because they taught that there would be no resurrection. But I do not believe that the judgment of Johnny Somebody from Bergen County Somewhere is perfect. That surely is obvious to me at least because as a Mormon of forty years I know from long experience that the slander you sling against us is not true. If Mormonism was not good and of God I would not be a Latter-day Saint.
There was much more than the Sadducees' disbelief of a resurrection that Christ spoke out against. And we have in God's Word what Christ spoke against, in addition to the rest of what God lays out as right and wrong for us.
You constantly try to make it appear as though this is my judgment which I am making up and you ignore the fact that I am merely repeating what God has already said in His Word.
What slander am I slinging against you which is not true? You constantly go back to that old refrain but you have yet t specify anything that I have said about mormonism that is not true. Everything I have said about mormonism is true according to your own leaders and teachers.
Mormonism is not of God, it is of Satan. It teaches the biggest lie and pride in the world which Christianity is in direct opposition to, that being that man can become like the Most High (which was Satan's original lie and pride). If Mormon Missionaries show up to my door I'm certain to share that truth with them, that their religion is based on a lie according to Christianity.
And, again, I myself am a Latter-day Saint, and I tell that to mormon missionaries also.
So where have I not judged righteously? I'm simply going by what God's Word says; it's not even my own judgment but God's judgment, as found in His Word.
There was much more than the Sadducees' disbelief of a resurrection that Christ spoke out against. And we have in God's Word what Christ spoke against, in addition to the rest of what God lays out as right and wrong for us.
You constantly try to make it appear as though this is my judgment which I am making up and you ignore the fact that I am merely repeating what God has already said in His Word.
What slander am I slinging against you which is not true? You constantly go back to that old refrain but you have yet t specify anything that I have said about mormonism that is not true. Everything I have said about mormonism is true according to your own leaders and teachers.
Mormonism is not of God, it is of Satan. It teaches the biggest lie and pride in the world which Christianity is in direct opposition to, that being that man can become like the Most High (which was Satan's original lie and pride). If Mormon Missionaries show up to my door I'm certain to share that truth with them, that their religion is based on a lie according to Christianity.
And, again, I myself am a Latter-day Saint, and I tell that to mormon missionaries also.
You can call yourself a stone if it pleases you but that does not make you a stone. Nor does calling yourself a "Latter-day Saint" make you a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as most people understand the phrase "Latter-day Saint" to mean.
As you callously put down the real Latter-day Saints you say: "I'm simply going by what God's Word says."
Where in the Holy Bible (which I assume is what you mean by "God's Word") is it written that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints follow Satan, or are puffed up in the pride of the world? You are not "merely repeating what God has already said in His Word." You are harshly and wrongly judging and rising up against followers of Jesus Christ with your own interpretation of things that you think justify your prideful self-styled (but contrary to the Sermon on the Mount) "Christ-like" behavior.
That's how I see it. And, yes, I recognize that you don't care a fig what other members of this board, other Christians, think. So, as I remarked before, there is little point in trying to discuss anything with you. Your mind is made up that Johnny knows "God's Word" and apparently nobody else (especially Mormons) could possibly be Christ-like. It is probable that you have concluded that everyone who disagrees with Johnny must be of Satan.
You are wrong Johnny, sadly for you, you are wrong.
Those who are interested in learning the truth about LDS religious beliefs are invited to browse at such sites as:
[quote=justamere10;8879652]You seem to have a callous disregard for everyone except yourself and your own (false) interpretation of scripture and what it means to be a humble follower of Jesus Christ.
God has commanded us to strive for PERFECTION. What kind of perfection? EVEN AS (the same as) OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN!
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5: 48
"The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. And why beholdest thou (Johnny) the mote that is in thy brother’s eye (Mormons), but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" Luke 6: 40-41
You have misinterpreted the scriptures Johnny. There are many more that urge us to become as much as possible like our Father in Heaven. We are to follow the example set by that perfect one, even Jesus the Christ.
"For the perfecting of the saints.... unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"
You must be a former missionary! lol Well, maybe all mormons use the same tactic, since it's a typical cult tactic to take scripture out of context and try to distort it to say what you want it to say.
The verses you provide speak of man being made perfect; and man is made perfect but ONLY through Christ's redemption. That doesn't mean we become perfect beings. We are still sinners, and not one of us is righteous, but we are all sinners, even while saved:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
1 Timothy 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Even Paul states that he is chief among sinners. Not was chief, but IS chief. He goes on to explain that while he is chief among sinners, he is also saved by Grace, because it is only through Christ we are made perfect:
2 Cor 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
So when Mormon missionaries show up at my door, I have no problem helping them to see how their cult teaches them things by taking God's Word out of context, and showing them, as I'm showing you, that there is more context in God's Word which must be considered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
It is possible that you are sincere in your beliefs Johnny, but it is obvious that you wrest the scriptures to justify your anger and hatred towards certain other followers of Jesus Christ whom you have judged harshly and wrongly.
You're mischaracterizing me by accusing me of hating and being angry against certain people. I don't hate anyone nor am I angry. But I do recognize false teaching and will tell any missionary at my door or anyone like you on a forum the truth according to God's Word. You are the one here who is cherry-picking verses, out of context, to prove your cult's teachings and I'm providing the other verses that you ignore to show that you're doing just that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
I fear for you, you are caught in a lie of your own choosing and have ceased to manifest the love of Jesus Christ for all of God's children, and the humility that is the mark of a true Christian.
I fear more for you, since you are in danger of eternal damnation in hell. What are you fearing for me for? That I won't get into the highest heaven but instead into one of the lower heavens? Isn't it true that by your cult's teachings someone like me will go to either the terrestrial or telestial kingdom and not hell? And if you believe that the lie I am caught in is "of [my] own choosing" then why did you say that you believe it's "possible that [I am] sincere in [my] beliefs"??? Which is it? You're trying to badmouth me but at the same time you're double-talking to cover yourself. And then you try to say that I'm lacking humility? Sounds like you're concerned about covering your own pride.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you."
How have I been unkind? By disagreeing with mormonism? It's strange, mormons go door-to-door to present a gospel that is in direct contradiction to Christians' Gospel which is from God's Word, and we are supposed to accept this as a kind and loving work being done by the mormons. However, if we present our Gospel from God's Word, we are labeled by mormons as angry and hateful and lacking humility, and as "anti-mormons". It's the old mormon double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
Here's a link to numerous other scriptures about perfection (becoming as God is):
There are numerous scriptures indicating that man (a literal son or daughter of Heavenly Parents) has the potential to 'grow up' and become as are the parents of their spirit bodies:
Topical Guide: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/m/29 - broken link)
Here's a link to the passage in God's Word where Lucifer believed the same lie you're pushing with your out-of-context scripture references and where he fell from God's Grace for it and began sin.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! {O Lucifer: or, O day star} 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
And here is where lucifer - Satan - told the lie to Eve, just as a mormon missionnary would tell the same lie to someone, that people can become "as gods":
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? {Yea...: Heb. Yea, because, etc.}
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Yes, I know, your missionaries ignore this part, and it is left to your temple ceremonies where Satan himself instructs new Temple Mormons to put on their plastic green fig leaf aprons and it is explained that Satan is part of the whole "plan" of mormonism. After all, mormon Satan is mormon Jesus' brother - and everyone else's brother, as well.
It's fine if you don't like what I'm saying, but if you are going to accuse me of lying or anger or hatred, then prove it. You simply reply with accusations and no facts. It's as if you want to distract from the facts and turn this into an emotion-driven argument.
I have no problem talking to mormon missionaries and apologists whether they are at my doorstep or on an internet forum, and setting the record straight when they claim to be Christians (because they are not).
You can call yourself a stone if it pleases you but that does not make you a stone. Nor does calling yourself a "Latter-day Saint" make you a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as most people understand the phrase "Latter-day Saint" to mean.
Nor does a mormon calling himself Christian make him Christian as most people understand the term "Christian" to mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
As you callously put down the real Latter-day Saints you say: "I'm simply going by what God's Word says."
I am a real Latter-day Saint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
Where in the Holy Bible (which I assume is what you mean by "God's Word") is it written that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints follow Satan, or are puffed up in the pride of the world? You are not "merely repeating what God has already said in His Word." You are harshly and wrongly judging and rising up against followers of Jesus Christ with your own interpretation of things that you think justify your prideful self-styled (but contrary to the Sermon on the Mount) "Christ-like" behavior.
The teaching of mormon gospel is that man can be like the most High (God), and the Word of God teaches that there is none other who can ever be like the Most High.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Satan's pride is shared by Mormons who believe the same as Lucifer when Lucifer believed he would become like the Most High:
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
That's how I see it. And, yes, I recognize that you don't care a fig what other members of this board, other Christians, think. So, as I remarked before, there is little point in trying to discuss anything with you. Your mind is made up that Johnny knows "God's Word" and apparently nobody else (especially Mormons) could possibly be Christ-like. It is probable that you have concluded that everyone who disagrees with Johnny must be of Satan.
Well, I care to hear what others think, but I don't care about it if it contradicts God's Word, and I don't expect anyone to care what I have to say if it contradicts God's Word. Furthermore, I can be tolerant of differences in non-essentials. But the nature of God and man and sin are essential tenets in Christianity which mormonism does not share. Christianity is monotheistic and grace-centric; mormonism is polytheistic and works-based. They are entirely different religions.
Plus, I find it utterly ironic and amusing that you are accusing me of being intolerant of others' "interpretations" of God's Word while you are being intolerant of mine, by your own standards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
You are wrong Johnny, sadly for you, you are wrong.
Again, you say this a lot, but you have yet to demonstrate it at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
Those who are interested in learning the truth about LDS religious beliefs are invited to browse at such sites as:
I agree, such sites will provide some of the truth about the LDS religion, but ot all of the secrets, like the tokens and passwords and weird magic underwear beliefs and strange dietary rules (i.e. no coffee or tea, amongst others).
....Well, maybe all mormons use the same tactic, since it's a typical cult tactic to take scripture out of context and try to distort it to say what you want it to say....
You responded to my comments that included references to verses from the New Testament by doing what you accuse me of doing - quoting a few verses and claiming that yours are 'in context' but mine are somehow not. I think we both agree that it is only through the grace of Jesus Christ that we can be saved.
But please respond to the following paragraph that was also in my message:
"Where in the Holy Bible (which I assume is what you mean by "God's Word") is it written that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints follow Satan, or are puffed up in the pride of the world? You are not "merely repeating what God has already said in His Word." You are harshly and wrongly judging and rising up against followers of Jesus Christ with your own interpretation of things that you think justify your prideful self-styled (but contrary to the Sermon on the Mount) "Christ-like" behavior."
Johnny persists in referring to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a "cult" so I'll copy below a message I recently posted in another thread on this board:
The 13,500,000 member worldwide Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints of course is not a cult anymore than is any other Christian denomination. But it seems fashionable among anti-Mormons (even on this board) to hurl the word at us as if that might help their cause somehow. So I thought it might be of interest to others for me to post a comment in this thread.
Orson Scott Card, author of "Enders Game" and dozens of other best-selling books, writes an interesting and entertaining commentary on cults versus legitimate churches:
Jeff Lindsay writes a lengthy article on the subject. Here are a couple of extracts:
"But recently, contrary to its original generic meaning, the word "cult" in popular use carries frightening overtones. It evokes images of suicidal, comet-chasing groups, physically abusive regimens, corrupt tyrants and Satanic rituals. Clearly there are some odd beliefs and groups in the world - but every religion can seem odd or even extreme to those who do not understand it.
The problem is that any general definition of "cult" in the negative, frightening sense is likely to include many presumably "decent" religions, including early Christianity, which was also denounced as a "sect" and a "cult" by its critics. In my opinion, the "Mormon Cult" is much like the "Christian Cult" from 2000 years ago. Misunderstood, controversial, but nothing to fear."
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