The Burden of Responsibility (beliefs, service, belief, Earth)

[GCSTroop]

This is more of a philosophical question but for those who are religious, you are welcome to use your religious beliefs to support your opinion.

As many of you are aware, I am in the aviation industry and one of my passions is investigating and researching aircraft crashes. This thread is not to question why they happen in regards to religious or non-religious opinion but to what degree people bear a burden of responsibility when something (such as a tragic accident) happens.

Recently in the news, we keep hearing about the plane that crashed in Buffalo killing people on the ground and everyone on board. While this is most certainly a tragedy and the investigation seems to be centered around those flying the airplane, the companies' neglect and/or abuse of crew rest protocols, as well as failure to do proper background checks on the pilots; I would like to ask not the obvious question as to who bears the obvious burden of responsibility but to what degree those associated on a lower level also bear responsibility for the crash.

We all draw our own conclusions of personal responsibility when investigating or experiencing a tragedy. Who is to blame? Who was negligent? Who/What was at fault? Who enabled this to happen? But, at what point, and under what circumstances do we draw the line? Should the mechanics who dispatched an airplane that had no known defects shoulder a burden of the responsibility simply because they 'enabled' it to take-off? Should the manufacturer, although not deemed negligently at fault thus far, be blamed for making a devise that killed so many people? Does the ticket agent who sold the tickets to the various passengers shoulder a load of responsibility for selling tickets to ride on an ultimately doomed flight?

The main reason I ask is because I think this gives an interesting insight as to how we perceive our own personal guilt in tragedies and how we cope with the realization that we are somehow involved, even on a minute level, with a tragedy.

A logical approach seems to requisite that it is they who were negligent that we often attribute the fault to and that seems to draw a rather good dividing line. But, if you were a ticket agent, a mechanic, or the manufacturer of the airplane, would you feel guilty and why?

Feel free to use examples outside of what I made in the OP to support your opinion but I am mainly interested in how we individually and socially draw the line at who bears the burden of responsibility. I would also like to encourage people to think about this as multi-dimensionally as possible.

[MontanaGuy]

There are certain situations in which guilt can clearly be assigned to an individual in a trajedy such as you've described because they were negligent. From what little I've read about this crash on the internet it sounded like they were trying to put alot of the blame on the pilot and it mentioned he had failed some tests and was lacking experience in certain areas. If it does turn out to be pilot error it gets a little more complicated from my point of view because the pilot was probably doing the very best job he could but was unprepared for the situation he encountered. In that case alot of the responsibility should be directed at those who accepted his qualifications and let him fly the plane in the first place.
There was some accident that occurred the other day and I can't even remember the situation but I do recall that the person who was supposed to be controlling whatever the vehicle was (it may have been a train or commuter rail I can't remember) was busy text messaging at the time of the accident. In this case the blame is clearly on that individual and no one else.
To further answer your question I don't believe that an employee who had no involvement whatever in an accident in the company they work for should feel personally responsible. Of course it's only natural that they would feel bad about it but a customer service person for example has no impact on the workings of a plane or train.

[GCSTroop]

Hi Montana,

I know what you mean in terms of an employee that works for the company should not feel negligent or guilty. I must be honest and say that an airplane I have worked on crashed about two months ago and killed everyone on board. At this point in the investigation, it appears as though it is entirely attributed to pilot error but I must admit there is a certain sense of "Could I have done anything better," that runs through one's mind when contemplating the situation.

I suppose I'm curious more about how people would deal with something like this that personally affects them more so than looking at the issue from the outside in.

I think it's interesting how human beings have a tendency to feel guilty or ashamed for things such as selling the 'fatal' ticket, fixing the 'fatal' airplane, etc...

I was hoping this post would serve the purpose of enabling people to think about certain events that they may feel responsible for (even in some small way) and allow themselves to explain why they do.

In my case, I realize that I had signed many items off on the fatal airplane that crashed at my company not too long ago. Could I have prevented it? Could I have stopped it by analyzing something else? There's no telling but I truly don't think I could have done anything different... This doesn't change the fact that it crashed... But, it allows oneself to cope with such a tragedy. I was just curious to see to what extent people blamed themselves or other people for such events.

[coosjoaquin]

I know what you mean. Every time I sign the DI book on any aircraft down at Lasham, I'm basically saying that this aircraft is serviceable to everyone who wants to use it for the day and that I would be responsible if it takes off with serious problems that the pilot's themselves don't look for in the pre-flight checks(ie: missing/broken safety pins, tears in the fabric...).

There is a deep sense of personal responsibility so you make sure to be as thorough as possible during the daily inspection.

Even if an accident was attributed to pilot error, why wouldn't I feel bad? That guy is one of ours after all.

[Abs42]

Hmm - interesting - I am a nurse, so we occasionally have instances where errors cause problems with patients, guilt with the nurse responsible is HUGE - I have several times had colleagues in floods of tears about something where the patient was absolutely fine about it!
I tend to be more stoical, but *touch wood* I haven't had any really serious errors (as in causing harm, I realise all errors are potentially serious), so maybe that is why I haven't got so upset.
Human error is impossible to eliminate, so as long as we do all we can to minimise it I don't think we should beat ourselves up too much about mistakes, but having said that I know we still will!
As for the "Who should be held responsible" bit - I don't really agree with the "heads must roll" attitude people have - I think it is pointless the head of a company resigning over something that hits the media, it usually isn't directly his fault, and it doesn't solve anything. Likewise sacking a scapegoat because of a mistake is ridiculous, changes should be made to procedures to try to eliminate the risk of it happening again, sacking one person is not going to solve anything.

[weatherologist]

Troop,

We are human, and in being such, hopefully we will always think of the 'what ifs". Everything that we do,no matter who we are or what our lot in life is, touch others.

You have the parent who's child falls prey to harm, the spouse who's significant other causes an accident while driving drunk, the nurse who's patient overdoses after going home when she knows that she had read the orders correctly and in depth to them, the list is endless. I don't know if we can or even should take the emotion out of what we do and who we are. That would make us, well, inhuman. Right?

From what I believe to have learned from your posts about who you are, there is not doubt in my mind that every job you do, you do with the utmost concern for the safety of those that will enter that plane.

Peace be with you, my friend.

<><

[Tricky D]

Being responsible and being at fault are imo 2 different things.
I mean people are imperfect therefore they make mistakes, so they are always responsible, but getting the blame?
If a surgeon did a very complex surgery on someone and the patient still died despite the fact that he did his best he certainly is responsible for his action but he shouldn't be blamed.
The surgeon would only be truly at fault if he operated on the wrong patient.

[effie g-tad]

reading this thread frightens the wits out of me.

humans are imperfect? why not replace them with robots? (tests for acceptability are well underway, in case no one wants to believe that).

who takes responsibility for making the earth unnatural and artificial?

just picking up on thoughts coming across, ok.

[GCSTroop]

Hi Tricky and others. Thanks for your response(s). I certainly feel there is a distinct separation between fault, responsibility, blame, etc...

When I made this post it wasn't so much to distinguish how we lay blame or even responsibility on a person but to encourage people to think about the vast multitude of events that occur in our lives (many of which we are unaware) and how they can impact other events and other people.

Have you ever known someone that was in a car accident, maybe died an untimely death, or was in 'the wrong place at the wrong time?'

Due to the often random and unpredictable events that we experience in our lifetime, I find it interesting to think about how each one of us can independently act and yet be a part of something bigger and more meaningful in other places. This certainly doesn't mean that one would or should focus on the negatives but for some reason it seems easier to do so for the purposes of this thread.

I think it's necessary to consider how we can blame ourselves for an event more or less out of our control. Yet, looking at it from the outside, we can easily dismiss any guilt in a good samaritan's actions as being part of a separate and independent set of actions.

With that in mind... I would like to ask... Why is it that when we have our consciousness raised to a certain incident or circumstance that affects us emotionally do we have a tendency to blame or put a burden of responsibility on ourselves despite our more than likely inability to affect the outcome?

[effie g-tad]

as stress levels are nearing break point, sympathies (or empathy) seem to concentrate in quite predictable ways, don't they?

(to avoid further beating around the bush: in the anonymity of the internet, crisis management has to be transparent and recognizable!)