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Old 05-23-2009, 09:23 AM
 
4,511 posts, read 7,504,835 times
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to op's question:

ideas like these originate in very immature minds, imho.
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Old 05-23-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,590,469 times
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Boxcar Overkill wrote:
Quote:
For too long, I think we have given religion a pass, and I don't think it rates one. If an idea is unsupportable, it should be mocked. We shouldn't spare them, or the feelings of people that believe in them. We should point our fingers at them and laugh for believe in what amounts to fairytales.
While we share a disbelief in religion our approach to presenting another point of view are different. Blue, who is a believer, wrote a post after mine and we've been having conversations for over two years now and I consider her and a number of other believers to be friends. I also have religious family members. I don't happen to believe that any of them should be mocked, ridiculed or laughed at because they believe in God. That just amounts to bullying and it also gives a bad reputation to atheism in general. I do feel empathy and understanding for people even if they don't share my personal beliefs. I also believe in the complete freedom of thought which includes religious beliefs.
Here's my opinion. If you really want to present atheism as an acceptable and intelligent point of view and you also want to influence people then you've got to make an effort to express yourself in such a manner that people are going to stop and think about what you're saying and every once in awhile you're going to find that someone is going to stop and think to themselves "you know, that really makes sense". Ridicule and insults are what you might expect from a group of drunken people in a bar who are arguing about something but none of them can really put their thoughts into intelligent sentences so the whole thing is a waste of time.
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Old 05-23-2009, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,647,304 times
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Violett started a brilliant thread and noone bothered to post for 24 hours.

Not ignoring a flamer as this one shows where most of your hearts are at, folks.

And we're called Zealots?
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,488,104 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Boxcar Overkill wrote:

While we share a disbelief in religion our approach to presenting another point of view are different. Blue, who is a believer, wrote a post after mine and we've been having conversations for over two years now and I consider her and a number of other believers to be friends. I also have religious family members. I don't happen to believe that any of them should be mocked, ridiculed or laughed at because they believe in God. That just amounts to bullying and it also gives a bad reputation to atheism in general. I do feel empathy and understanding for people even if they don't share my personal beliefs. I also believe in the complete freedom of thought which includes religious beliefs.
Here's my opinion. If you really want to present atheism as an acceptable and intelligent point of view and you also want to influence people then you've got to make an effort to express yourself in such a manner that people are going to stop and think about what you're saying and every once in awhile you're going to find that someone is going to stop and think to themselves "you know, that really makes sense". Ridicule and insults are what you might expect from a group of drunken people in a bar who are arguing about something but none of them can really put their thoughts into intelligent sentences so the whole thing is a waste of time.
I also come from a strong religious background, and have many friends who are religious. But I don't treat religious ideas any different than other types of ideas. If it is a really stupid, even if it is a religious idea, than it is worthy of ridicule.

I know my answer isn't as politically correct as yours. But if there was ever a thing that was okay to mock, it would be a really stupid idea. I think that notion is accepted by the larger society - except if that idea wraps itself in the cloak of religion. Only then must the stupid idea be treated with respect.

But I think we have given religious idea too much respect. Religious ideas should be held to the same level of scrutiny as any other idea. We give stupid ideas credibility when we treat them with respect that they are not due. We, therefore, contribute to their adoption by behaving as if irrational ideas are serious.

There are countries where it is becoming illegal to mock a stupid idea, if that idea is a religious idea. This is particularly true with hate crime legislation and Islam. The cartoons in Denmark, the critic in Canada, etc.

I don't think unserious ideas should be treated seriously.

That's what I'm thinking right now anyway.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,590,469 times
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Boxcar Overkill wrote:
Quote:
There are countries where it is becoming illegal to mock a stupid idea, if that idea is a religious idea. This is particularly true with hate crime legislation and Islam. The cartoons in Denmark, the critic in Canada, etc.
I do agree with you about Islam. They make every possible effort to prevent free speech and the expression of contrary points of view and they'll threaten you with death if you cross the line. The business with the cartoons was just ridiculous and not worthy of any attention at all but the fanatics just came unglued over it.
I have to say though that I would hate to live in a society in which people who are religious became persecuted to such an extent that an officially atheist state would treat them the same way that the religious whackos in the Middle East treat people are aren't following the rigid rules of Islam.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:39 AM
 
4,511 posts, read 7,504,835 times
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^^
as an aside, i would recommend more esprit and less crudeness in any society and concerning all social affairs ....


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Old 05-23-2009, 10:43 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,488,104 times
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Yeah, I don't want state persecution of anyone. But, in my opinion, I also don't think religious ideas should be protected - neither by law nor by social custom. Religious ideas shouldn't get a special status above normal ideas that protects them from normal scrutiny. Nor do I think an idea should be respected, simply because it is a religious idea. If an idea is silly, it doesn't matter if it is religious, it should be labeled silly.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:44 AM
 
Location: upstate ny
136 posts, read 378,376 times
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i think we should burn it only if we can get paul mccartney and ringo starr to do it.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,647,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardboy2454 View Post
i think we should burn it only if we can get paul mccartney and ringo starr to do it.
Why don't we do it in the road? <with ringo's terrible singing>
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:48 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,488,104 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by effie briest View Post
^^
as an aside, i would recommend more esprit and less crudeness in any society and concerning all social affairs ....


I understand what you're saying.

This idea of mine isn't well developed yet. I'm still considering whether or not it is appropriate or useful to mock silly ideas, and if so, whether there should be a religious exception. I may change my mind on this, at some point. But for now, I think it maybe the problem is that we don't mock silly ideas enough.
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