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I have this thing where every time I see a person on a corner with a sign asking for money. I always give. It is hard not to let the thought enter my mind " he/she will possible buy booze with it". Well because people do sometimes buy beer with the money. I struggled with this and prayed about it.
Here is how I look at it now.
When my gift (money) goes from my hands to the person on the street this is between God and I.
Once the person has my gift in there hands it is between them and God! What they do with it has nothing to do with me.
There are other ways to give. Bringing food to the church pantry or to a food bank, bringing a person dinner who just got out of the hospital, visiting a person in the hospital, paying a electric bill for someone, helping someone move, visit a person at a nursing home, the list is endless.
Yes, I do tithe at church to help the church , but I also enjoy getting out there and giving in person.
Tithing. As mentioned earlier in the post, it actually means a "tenth". And since the Bible does say to bring all the tithes into the storehouse, we should tithe.
And I think we all agree with that, at least up until our own concept of tithing. I, for one, have always given 10% of my gross (before taxes) to God, as we are to give God His money before we give the country theirs. In addition, there is always the option of Missions giving (usually another 10 or 15 percent) and building funds (about 5 percent). Also, there are times when, like JerZ (who made an astute observation about the bills of the church), I just feel led of the Spirit to give a little more.
We say, "Why does God need this?" Well, we live on planet earth. Things cost money. Bills, Missionaries, Paychecks (not just Pastor, but scores of people on staff), Gas for Bus and Van Routes, Maintenance, Insurance, and Trips for the Pastor and Staff to preacher's meetings and the like. God has set up this system of tithing -- not so much supernatural as it is just the general rule of cause and effect. You get money, you pay bills.
The supernatural part comes in when you give above and beyond your normal comfort zone. For some, that may be the minimum ten percent. For others, it may be 50 or 60, or even 90% like J.C. Penney (yes, the founder of the store).
My Father was a missionary in Zambia, Africa. We were there for only 4 years and then Dad was taken home to heaven by means of Malaria. But he understood the value of giving. He gave so much (even though he needed it to get to Zambia and stay in Zambia), and was blessed for it.
The Bible says that if we do not give our tithes, we are actually robbing God. If we maintain the mindset that all our money is God's anyways (We are bought with a price...our bodies and all they earn belongs to God), then 10% or even 90% doesn't seem like so much.
Even more of an encouragment to give -- Christ gave not only His life, but His perfect, sinless status up for us. He who knew no sin became sin for us. And we hold on to our wallets and pursestrings tightly?
Hmm...Methinks a change of perspective would remedy the situation of the unwillingness to give.
By the way, some pastors DO indeed extort the church's funds. And that is wrong. They are essentially driving stolen beemers. But there are those who are truly devoted to what they do, and tithe just as much as you do, if not more. So we, perhaps, should not judge (Matthew 7), but rather praise God for providing for our hard-working pastors like He has.
I wish my Pastor had a beemer. Hey, maybe two! The Bible says "Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honour". That means they deserve twice as much.
Pastors (the ones who truly do their job and are responsible with church money, mind you) deserve a beemer and so much more. If my tithe can go not only to bills and missions, but also to the pastor's personal nest egg, I'm HAPPY to contribute to the hard-working man of God.
I have this thing where every time I see a person on a corner with a sign asking for money. I always give. It is hard not to let the thought enter my mind " he/she will possible buy booze with it". Well because people do sometimes buy beer with the money. I struggled with this and prayed about it.
Here is how I look at it now.
When my gift (money) goes from my hands to the person on the street this is between God and I.
Once the person has my gift in there hands it is between them and God! What they do with it has nothing to do with me.
There are other ways to give. Bringing food to the church pantry or to a food bank, bringing a person dinner who just got out of the hospital, visiting a person in the hospital, paying a electric bill for someone, helping someone move, visit a person at a nursing home, the list is endless.
Yes, I do tithe at church to help the church , but I also enjoy getting out there and giving in person.
Now that I do!! I always give to the churches when they call for food and clothing, to help needy families, I always bring toys to their christmas drives as well.
Wow. thank you all for your kind words. I really do try to be respectful of others regarding their views. I do get quite riled up from time to time, but make sure I do not post until I've calmed down. I am an Irishman after all. I've told my wife I'm passionate about my views...she just smiled and said, "sure we'll call it that." It is encouraging to hear these kind words as I do know my views tend to stir up the pot.
And Redbird, you can pimp up my ride anyday! My van is nice, but I'd sure like a Hoosier mobile sometimes...instead of "Dad on the road".
And Nea I do agree with you regarding the mega churches and the exorbitant amount of money for a house. I know here in the Twin Cities you cannot get a reasonably nice house in a good neighborhood under $250,000 (and that's pretty much a starter home that needs work). But you ARE right and I do appreciate your views. I haven't seen our pastor's house, but I've seen his car and it's nice...not a beemer nice, but it gets him from point A to point B.
There was a church here where the pastor was under scrutiny for all the things you brought up Nea. If memory serves, he has a personal jet and everything. Now that is where I think it borders on the ridiculous. I won't attend churches like that because I'm not comfortable in that environment. Our church is probably about maybe 300 people at the very most. I like it when the church tells you where the money is going...and you can really see that it's going to those places.
There are so many churches out there that are doing the right thing with their money, it's so sad that they get overshadowed by the big ones who are manipulating people.
Wow. thank you all for your kind words. I really do try to be respectful of others regarding their views. I do get quite riled up from time to time, but make sure I do not post until I've calmed down. I am an Irishman after all. I've told my wife I'm passionate about my views...she just smiled and said, "sure we'll call it that." It is encouraging to hear these kind words as I do know my views tend to stir up the pot.
And Redbird, you can pimp up my ride anyday! My van is nice, but I'd sure like a Hoosier mobile sometimes...instead of "Dad on the road".
And Nea I do agree with you regarding the mega churches and the exorbitant amount of money for a house. I know here in the Twin Cities you cannot get a reasonably nice house in a good neighborhood under $250,000 (and that's pretty much a starter home that needs work). But you ARE right and I do appreciate your views. I haven't seen our pastor's house, but I've seen his car and it's nice...not a beemer nice, but it gets him from point A to point B.
There was a church here where the pastor was under scrutiny for all the things you brought up Nea. If memory serves, he has a personal jet and everything. Now that is where I think it borders on the ridiculous. I won't attend churches like that because I'm not comfortable in that environment. Our church is probably about maybe 300 people at the very most. I like it when the church tells you where the money is going...and you can really see that it's going to those places.
There are so many churches out there that are doing the right thing with their money, it's so sad that they get overshadowed by the big ones who are manipulating people.
I am irish too maybe thats why!!LOL Some German too, so I bet that makes it worse!!
Yes the church was a big one for sure. I liked the smaller town churches, everyone knows everyone and nothing is hid. I will participate in their charity work even though I dont attend. usually they try to get me to join, and most of the time they accept my response and are polite. but there have been times........ well you know!!
Great thread Hoosier! I'm coming in a bit late but would like to add my opinion.
Personally I do not think the pastors or clergy or whatever you call em should be payed. In my church everything (except for the really high up which are required to devote all their time so therefore they are payed living expenses) is done on a volunteer basis. I don't have any problem paying 10% of my income (well when I had it ). I look at it none of it is ours anyways and God is only asking 10% of it back. Yes the church uses the money but it is also a spiritual principle. What are we willing to do for God? When compared to what some have had to sacrifice I don't think 10% is asking much.
I enjoy you Hoosier, you are very sincere in your beliefs and respectful of people who may not agree with you. Thanks for being here!!!
I ditto this as well, you're a great guy Hoosier!
As far as tithing...We tithe every Sunday. We may not tithe exactly 10%, but we tithe respectfully and adequately. We also offer extra money and our time as well. We're a small church, therefore I know most of the ins and outs (as well as the Pastor lives next door to us )
Most churches have more than one account and they are set up for different things. There is the main fund which is for the utilities and basic expenses of the church. This includes an AWANA program (Approved Workman Are Not Ashamed) which is strictly for kids k-12. We have olympic style games, snack, Bible memory versus counsel time and awards. We would be able to fund that program *(which is GREAT for kids) without the tithing from our members. Then we have a Deacon's fund which is for helping people in need (sometimes it's a member of our church that is down on their luck, but often it is for someone outside of the church that just need help) or other community related events. Then we also have special funds for a particular need etc for the church such as a van to transport people back and forth to church, new chairs etc. But our church is kind of the exception...our church will not even host or allow a yard sale on our church property as they do not want to be endorse fund raising for the church. If a church member wants to have a yard sale and donate to teh church, that's ok, but they do not want people thinking our church is high maintenance and always asking for handouts.
Our Pastor and Asst. pastor donate everything back that they get from their salary into the church funds (and neither are rich or drive expensive cars, the pastor is retired and the assr pastor is a school teacher...definately NOT rich!). Our Deacon gets a measley $100 per month for helping out around the church. However, I have also seen churches where the pastor drives a Cadillac, wears silk suits and the wife is high maintenance. While I agree that they should receive a salary, I think sometimes it is overboard. Sorry Hoosier, this is one thing I have to disagree with you on. Instead of having all of these expensive things, wouldn't it be more of a "Christian example" if they were to use the money for the community or other charities? IMHO, they are not being very humble or modest. These are the extreme cases however, and not the norm!
I understand when people get upset because when the pastor is almost like a 30 minute infomercial trying to get you to give give give. Although a lot of them do go overboard, please do not put all churches in the same category. God knows what's going on here, He will take care of it.
I support churches. I technically belong to a Lutheran church and regularly contribute money. I encourage people to be members of a church (any church). I have been a member of a church council, acted as Treasurer, did my part on work days, and raised my children in the church. I do my best to follow in the path of, and adhere to the teachings of, Jesus of Nazareth.
However, I am an agnostic, and have been since I was 16 years old. I personally don't care if there is a God, or an afterlife, or not. I've gotten along without faith for almost 7 decades, and just don't feel the need to worry about it one way or another.
So, why do I support the church? Because so many people do seem to need it, to derive comfort from it, and make a firm effort to follow the teachings of a church. The message of a church is a good message, one that should be respected, simply because it is a helpful message and leads to a better life. The whole God thing really has nothing to do with it, except as an incentive some people seem to need.
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I confess...
An interesting post...
It is encouraging to hear these kind words as I do know my views tend to stir up the pot. 
)
