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Sorry to go off topic but does the bible mention flying saucers? UFO's were around during the writing of the old testament, obviously.
They aren't called saucers in the bible. They're called "chariots/fiery chariots", and "clouds". And there are no UFO's in the Bible, just bad/fallen angels; good/holy angels; satans/evil spirits [in heaven]; demons/evil spirits [on earth- disembodied nephillim]; good/righteous men; and bad/wicked men. Psa 68:17 The chariots of God [are] twenty thousand, [even] thousands of angels: the Lord [is] among them, [as in] Sinai, in the holy [place]. 2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain [was] full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
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Eze 1:1-28 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the River Chebar, that the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God.
On the fifth day of the month, which was in the fifth year of King Jehoiachin's captivity,
the word of the LORD came expressly to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the River Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was upon him there.
Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness [was] all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
Also from within it [came] the likeness of four living creatures. And this [was] their appearance: they had the likeness of a man.
Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings.
Their legs [were] straight, and the soles of their feet [were] like the soles of calves' feet. They sparkled like the color of burnished bronze.
The hands of a man [were] under their wings on their four sides; and each of the four had faces and wings.
Their wings touched one another. [The creatures] did not turn when they went, but each one went straight forward.
As for the likeness of their faces, [each] had the face of a man; each of the four had the face of a lion on the right side, each of the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and each of the four had the face of an eagle.
Thus [were] their faces. Their wings stretched upward; two [wings] of each one touched one another, and two covered their bodies.
And each one went straight forward; they went wherever the spirit wanted to go, and they did not turn when they went.
As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance [was] like burning coals of fire, like the appearance of torches going back and forth among the living creatures. The fire was bright, and out of the fire went lightning.
And the living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning. Now as I looked at the living creatures, behold, a wheel [was] on the earth beside each living creature with its four faces. The appearance of the wheels and their workings [was] like the color of beryl, and all four had the same likeness. The appearance of their workings [was], as it were, a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
When they moved, they went toward any one of four directions; they did not turn aside when they went.
As for their rims, they were so high they were awesome; and their rims [were] full of eyes, all around the four of them.
When the living creatures went, the wheels went beside them; and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
Wherever the spirit wanted to go, they went, [because] there the spirit went; and the wheels were lifted together with them, for the spirit of the living creatures [was] in the wheels.
When those went, [these] went; when those stood, [these] stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up together with them, for the spirit of the living creatures [was] in the wheels.
The likeness of the firmament above the heads of the living creatures [was] like the color of an awesome crystal, stretched out over their heads.
And under the firmament their wings [spread out] straight, one toward another. Each one had two which covered one side, and each one had two which covered the other side of the body.
When they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of many waters, like the voice of the Almighty, a tumult like the noise of an army; and when they stood still, they let down their wings.
A voice came from above the firmament that [was] over their heads; whenever they stood, they let down their wings.
And above the firmament over their heads [was] the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne [was] a likeness with the appearance of a man high above it.
Also from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw, as it were, the color of amber with the appearance of fire all around within it; and from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw, as it were, the appearance of fire with brightness all around.
Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so [was] the appearance of the brightness all around it. This [was] the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. So when I saw [it], I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking.
No it doesn't. In the Talmud and Jewish hymns recited on the festival of Shavuot, known as Akdamut, Behemoth represents the ox.
"...The sport with the Leviathan and the ox (Behemoth)...When they will interlock with one another and engage in combat, with his horns the Behemoth will gore with strength, the fish (Leviathan) will leap to meet him with his fins, with power.
Sheez.
The problem with the Talmud is that it was written by men who had lost the wisdom of God because God hid it from them.
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Isa 29:10 For the LORD has poured out on you The spirit of deep sleep, And has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets; And He has covered your heads, [namely], the seers. Isa 29:11 The whole vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one who is literate, saying, "Read this, please." And he says, "I cannot, for it [is] sealed." Isa 29:12 Then the book is delivered to one who is illiterate, saying, "Read this, please." And he says, "I am not literate." Isa 29:13 Therefore the Lord said: "Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men, Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work Among this people, A marvelous work and a wonder; For the wisdom of their wise [men] shall perish, And the understanding of their prudent [men] shall be hidden."
Leviathan is called "the serpent", in Isaiah 27: Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with His severe sword, great and strong, Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent/[nachash, Leviathan that twisted serpent; And He will slay the reptile that [is] in the sea.
They aren't called saucers in the bible. They're called "chariots/fiery chariots", and "clouds". And there are no UFO's in the Bible, just bad/fallen angels; good/holy angels; satans/evil spirits [in heaven]; demons/evil spirits [on earth- disembodied nephillim]; good/righteous men; and bad/wicked men. Psa 68:17 The chariots of God [are] twenty thousand, [even] thousands of angels: the Lord [is] among them, [as in] Sinai, in the holy [place]. 2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain [was] full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
It is just AMAZING to me that you seem to KNOW what God is talking about!! First you say the saucers were called fiery chariots, then say no UFO's were in the Bible, which is it. Were you there when it was written? I seems to me you like to put your own meanings to the versus to suit your needs or beliefs. I think they said fiery chariots, as in FAST. See the Bible is just a story or collections of stories to tell a story that they thought would put the people into submission by fear, it AMAZES me people still follow this stuff, I would think logical, free thinking intelligent people would see it for what it truly is. Just a story. Now please DO NOT come back at me with some verse from the Bible that you believe proves it existence, it does not and will not ever prove anything more than you follow a book written by hundreds of people( none of which you have ever met) two thousand years ago, basically it is all second, third and fourth person stories.
I count some of my very best Christian friends in this same 'silly category.
I think it is because it's just a popular Christian myth, and the fact that you can go a long time in the church and never get challenged on believing in that myth, that people in the church can hold onto the idea that Adam and Eve walked with the Dinosaurs.
It's like the myth that men have one less rib than women.
It's heard in many Christian places from time to time, and it hangs onto people's minds because it never really comes up all that much, and when it does it is not something people make a big deal over.
I count some of my very best Christian friends in this same 'silly category.
I think it is because it's just a popular Christian myth, and the fact that you can go a long time in the church and never get challenged on believing in that myth, that people in the church can hold onto the idea that Adam and Eve walked with the Dinosaurs.
It's like the myth that men have one less rib than women.
It's heard in many Christian places from time to time, and it hangs onto people's minds because it never really comes up all that much, and when it does it is not something people make a big deal over.
You know and that's the thing isn't it? I have not understood the stubborn and usually ridiculous need to prove the bible (Genesis in particular) as being scientific fact. It's almost as if certain types of Christians' faith hinges on it. I don't understand why science seems to be such a threat to some folk's faith.
I went to Catholic school and our science and theology teachers always taught how Genesis and the science can live in harmony with each other. That Genesis was a way for the people of their time to explain the mysteries of god's creation. The priests said that though science has shown us natural processes, it still does not invalidate creation. This always made sense to me. Though I am not a christian myself (I'm an agnostic who is pretty sure there is "something" out there, but doesn't "know" what it is and express it through my Comanche traditions), I can appreciate those christians who "get it".
You know and that's the thing isn't it? I have not understood .
I have a hint as to what the real problem is.
Math.
It's math.
Let me show you the "Catch-22" that has wormed it's way into the minds of many Christians, some being my very close friends.
First off, the math of both the Young Earther and the Scientist is about the same for most if not all of the majority of the Bible.
Simply put, there is not much for them to disagree over until we drop back and dig into the time-line of the Genesis story.
This is where the "math problem" is found.
You see, Scientist and Young Earthers have the human time-line more or less the same for the rise of "modern man" going all the way back to several thousand years ago.
Then there is a problem.
For the Young Earther has the creation of the whole Universe just a few 24 hour days before the rise of "modern man".
Whereas the Scientest has the universe streatching back into history for several more BILLION years...
The Young Earther is not really "against science" it all just a math problem to them and the way they interpet the Text and simply dont have zillions of days to add to the time-line.
They just got 5 days to work with...and thats the math problem.
But it is also not a wall that cant be pulled down.
The crack in that wall is that the Christian knows from his End-Times study of other books of the Bible that sometimes the term 'days ' or 'weeks' can have a meaning that is not just limited to a 24 hour "day", and 7 day "week".
Thus the idea that the "6 Days of creation" might be symbolic of a vast uncountable amount of age, is not out of the quesdtion for the bible student to see and understand.
Another thing I like to point out to the Young Earther, is that while the first 6 days of Creation have clear endings, there is none 'yet' recorded in the Bible for the 7th day.
In all the Bible there is not even a hint that the 7th Day of creation is over yet.
It's also completely predictable that any concept that will stuff Genesis back into the myth bag is researched and dealt with harshly on the typical Crreationist websites. Why?
Well, because if you start pulling out the bedrock supports for the entire Chrsitian mythology, I mean the literalist interpreation of it by the wacko fundies, it has to all fall down.
Hence their intense hatred, well fueled by the Church and money-grubbing literalist websites, what with their free vinyl heat-sealed pouch of Holy Water (actually simple, contaminated tap water from downtown LA) for:
Evolution. (well proved in science by observation, prediction and now, DNA tracking of a 22 yr long lab study leading to speciation, as well as many other sources. With new, ever-more convincing ones surfacing each year.)
Geological column evidence: the most recent sediments and fossils are, logically, laid down at the top of the heap, and then buried by later deposits. Pretty hard to fathom, huh? Even though you can witness it in a mud puddle in your back yard. The denialist "evidence" is pretty silly to read, but what else is new?
Age of the Universe: speed of light, and an expanding universe. I just read in Astronomy Magazine, the latest issue, that astronomoers can ACCURATELY measure the velocity of distant stars and their exoplanets, millions of light years away, down to 2 - 3 mph. Hmmm.... and they call science "assumptive".
Varve analysis. A real toughie for fundies, frankly. These provide incontrovertible proof of very old annual sedimentary layers, millions of years old. The more incontrovertible the real evidence, the more creative the excuses or denialist evidence. To be predicted and expected, I supopse.
Fossil record. Enough said. You mean co-existing vegan T-Rexs by the dozen on an Ark for 18 months? Really. Yet oddly, no actual subsequent mention in the bible, anywhere, of herds of saddled-up Brontosaurs in the big stable out back. nor what ghappened to the vast herds of them, all the 4000 known species we've cataloged. Now THAT's rational, huh?
"Daddy, can I please have a Velociraptor for Christmas? I promise: I'll feed it and take care of it. Can I daddy" Ohhh pleeeeezzzz, can I?"
Modern DNA genome mapping and our unique human genome, which is uniquely different in each of us for many factors, and across races. And yet, they flatly deny the existance of any mechanism to allow for any genetic drift.
As in: "No Evolvin' Allowed Here! No-how, No way!"
Thus, we should all be exact clones of Noah's incestuous children, and their mystery multi-colored wives. Those harlots! (Apparently that benchmark mtDNA study that the Chritian fuindies initially latched on to as "Science proves Eve existed!", the mitochondrial Eve, clearly showed that we allo came from a rather low-brow semi-simian black woman. That what Noah was; a black guy? No problem for me, but why then am I white? So very very white? With "No Evolvin' Allowed!"???)
This new DNA technique also tracks the slight changes in en-route speciation. The fundy come-back? "Ain't nev'r seen a cat change into no dog overnight, no I ain't!"
Isotopic and other non-nuclear dating techniques, all improving, all the time. According to the YECs, (unless they suddenly and conveniently want to show something is actually 5245.9 years old); all of these techniques, all bogus. But when claimed as valid by fundies, they typically cite the entirely wrong technique (Acambara figurines; completely inorganic yet apparently successfully aged by C14 organic dating. Wrong). Silly. Obviously silly.
Basic reproductive ecology. Their version of the saline-contaminated vegetation-free post-flood world, starting out with a disembarking party at 15,000 feet ASL, where O2 is quite hard to find and breath, would not have been possible, based on what we now know about basic ecology and stability. and Earth science. Hey' no problem for the scientifically illiterate!! Those of us who have sat down with an open mind and read a few books, and pondered the realities, not so easily swallowed.
Endless mis-quotes of credible scientists."Henry Gee said". Wrong. He did not.
Results of all of this denialism? The thick-headed rebuttals are exactly that, and hang on things no scientists have ever claimed or said. So, the Creationists make stuff up to try, desperately, to counter it. LFJ
Since the creation of animals and man in Genesis, the most common animals mentioned in the Bible are the ones we know of. if the bible possess the absolute truth of God then dinosaurs should have been more present in the bible as we all know how incredibly enormous these creatures were.
If the earth is 6000 years old then how on earth or what on earth happened to the dinosaurs?
Amplified Bible
Genesis 1...In the beginning God (prepared, formed, fashioned, ) and created the heavens and the earth. Heb. 11:3. 2...The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The spirit of God was moving, (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters. 3....And God said let there be light; and there was light. 4...And God saw the light, that it was good-suitable, pleasing-and he approved it; and God separated the light from the darkness. [ll Cor. 4:6] 5...And God called the light day; and the darkness he called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
howest2008....If you read on (you) will find out that GOD didn't create the concept of time (as we know it) until the (3rd) (day) meaning that the first and second days could have been hundreds of Millions or even Billion (of years long) and Dinosaurs could have lived in the sea's on the first day, and on dry land and the sea's by the second day of creation , GOD didn't find it of importants to speak on the subject of Dinosaurs because they aren't (modern animals) and have no need of being in the narrative of the Bible.
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