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Old 07-07-2009, 07:42 AM
 
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It seems like if you look at the entirety of history it would be Christianity. I mean Christianity is still dragging its heels vis-a-vis progress and science - some churches act like they're "progressive" because, after a century of overwhelming evidence discrediting their Iron Age myths they finally concede that yes, we did in fact evolve from other life forms. Lol that's not progressive, acknowledging reality is the bare minimum for even negligible credibility. Earlier there were the Crusades, the Inquisition, the justifications of slavery, the Church's enabling of naziism in the 20th century. In recent times we can look to the Rwandan genocide and Serbia for the effects of Christianity. Closer to home, we have the appalling Republican Party, which more and more has become just a marginalized arm of right-wing Christianity, opposed to all enlightenment values, and stoking the ignorant fears of the hapless yokels who constitute the base of the Party.
Islam certainly has a lot to answer for as well, especially today with radical Islam in Europe where it is particularly virulent. In the past as well you had the Barbary slave trade, as well as irruputions into the Holy Roman Empire.
Some people try to discount from the harm religion does because certain individual religious people did good things - "But what about the Christians who opposed slavery?" for instance. The problem with that argument is causation - if they had been secular humanists from the outset, it is almost certain they would have opposed the bad practice in question, whereas with Christians it's a mixed bag at best so on the whole they do more harm than good. Also, you have to ask yourself "without the ignorance caused by religion, would the harm have even existed in the first place?"

Last edited by austinguy2009; 07-07-2009 at 07:57 AM..
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by austinguy2009 View Post
if they had been secular humanists from the outset, it is almost certain they would have opposed the bad practice in question
Yeah like the secularists in the Soviet Union, Communist China, North Korea, Cambodia...........

THEY are great believers in freedom
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:17 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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Kind of baitish.

Anyway there are other things besides science. Many churches do good by helping the sick and homeless.

Still the religion that caused the most harm is the Taiping religion. The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom killed between 20-30 million people. This greatly counterbalances the more positive things they did like ending footbinding or giving food to some peasants. It is also a much higher death-toll than the most reasonable high-end figures for mainstream Christianity. The Taiping religion doesn't seem to have survived the Rebellion.
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by c'est la vie View Post
Yeah like the secularists in the Soviet Union, Communist China, North Korea, Cambodia...........

THEY are great believers in freedom
I think you forgot a word there: Secular humanism.
Dictators usually don't qualify as secular humanists.

Secular humanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
I think you forgot a word there: Secular humanism.
Dictators usually don't qualify as secular humanists.

Secular humanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In what way do you think they don't qualify?

In their opinion, they are building a better world.

Who are you to say that they are wrong? Isn't that an individual moral judgement?
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:43 AM
 
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I would say humanism has caused more harm.
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
I would say humanism has caused more harm.
I know theist love to characterize atheism and humanism as being religions as opposed to philosophies but it's just a case of bad spin.

re⋅li⋅gion  [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
I would say humanism has caused more harm.
Yes, but then you say alot of things that are not associated with reality
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:52 AM
 
2,957 posts, read 7,381,943 times
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Originally Posted by c'est la vie View Post
In what way do you think they don't qualify?

In their opinion, they are building a better world.

Who are you to say that they are wrong? Isn't that an individual moral judgement?
I can see that you won't care how I answer.
Are you really implying that the Soviet/communist dictators were Secular Humanists just because they didn't believe in God? If so, then just disregard my response to you. Have fun with the demagoguery, though.
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I know theist love to characterize atheism and humanism as being religions as opposed to philosophies but it's just a case of bad spin.

re⋅li⋅gion  [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
Note that litte word 'esp.' in the definition?

That doesn't mean 'only'.

That means it's probably the most common use of the word, but it's not exclusive.
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