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Poor recovery attempt, you said Jesus said everyone was sinners. That is not what this verse says or implies. Proves you do not know what is stated in the bible and you go along with the run-of-the-mill taughtology.
No one is good, only God/All have sinned & fallen short of God's glory
Which means that quite a bit more than 700,000 left the church in that same period....Does this mean that non believers are growing at a faster pace? The fact is that your church and many Christian churches are in decline.
I won't argue that point (although I have done no personal research on this matter). However, would you agree that there are still significant numbers of people "buying" the Gospel message?
The figures means squat. By that number alone it can be inferred that children of adult members "coming of age"
In the Southern Baptist church, salvation is a personal choice. It's not like confirmation in the Catholic church. We baptize only believers—older kids and adults who profess change of heart and want to witness this with an outward sign.
That's almost 700,000 new believers in just two years, in just Southern Baptist churches. That # excludes all the other Christian denominations & missionary work worldwide.
How can it be "700,000 new mebmers" when every last word in that aticle says "less then", "dropped" and "fell"?
Granted, my math skills aren't up to snuff, but when every phrase in a news article says "dropped", it doen't look like any increase to me.
I agree that there are new converts to Christianity every day. But I know for a fact that many of them have no idea what they are 'converting' to. Many people are really looking for something other than God and, when they eventually realize that, they leave the fold. I've seen that play out so many times I've lost count. I can practically predict who will leave and when based on what was going on in their lives when they converted.
There are certainly those who profess Christianity who aren't true believers. Jesus said that exact thing. However, only God knows who that is.
I blame pastors who don't preach the Bible, but rather deal in emotions. In my church, we deal with that issue before church membership is granted.
Does Hell Exist - What does the Old Testament say?
Does Hell exist? A proper biblical worldview includes a belief in a real, eternal, and physical hell. What do you believe?
It is very interesting to discover that there are more Bible verses about Hell than there are about Heaven. Here are a few verses in the Old Testament about Hell. Daniel 12:2 proclaims, "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Hell is described here as everlasting. Isaiah 66:24 declares, "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." In this Scripture, hell is described as a place where the fire is not quenched. Deuteronomy 32:22 portrays hell as a place where God pours out His wrath, "For a fire is kindled in My anger, and shall burn to the lowest hell; It shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains." Psalms 55:15 illustrates hell as a realm of the wicked, "Let death seize them; Let them go down alive into hell, for wickedness is in their dwellings and among them."
That is all fine and good IF you decide to believe that the KJV and the NKJV are accurate translations....which they are not. In fact, have been shown to be the absolute worst English translation out there. The words translated as "hell" in those versions is the Hebrew word sheol, which mean simply and literally "grave".
The Israelite and later Jew would not even know what you are talking about. This is a fact...not an opinion. The author of the work you cited also conveniently left out some other verses with the word sheol in them.
As an example (there are others), in Psalm 16:10, David ostensibly says:
“For thou will not leave my soul in Hell neither wilt thou suffer thine holy one to see corruption.”
Are we to assume that David was hellbound? And isn't it so that supposedly once one has gone to hell, there is no way out? So what did David mean here? And BTW, this is NOT any reference to Jesus' resurrection. Read it in context and you will see that.
Well the word in Hebrew is, once again, sheol. David was speaking in of the grave. Every instance the word "hell" found in the OT (it appears 66 times) been mistranslated from the Hebrew word sheol. And every time it has meant the same thing - the grave...nothing more, nothing less. The writers of the KJV and later NKJV purposely mistranslated this word to add support for their very pagan doctrine. THe Hebrew word sheol has never meant, does not mean, and never will mean "hell". Again, this is not opinion....it is a fact. I very much recommend that you research this yourself, if your faith is up to it.
One last thing, Isaiah 66:24 does indeed declare, "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." This is no reference to hell, but rather gehenna. Gehenna is a real place. It was the garbage pit for Jerusalem. In days prior to the exile, pagan ceremonies to Molech were held there. People were sacrificed to Molech by immolation...burning. The fires raged day and night. This is part of the reason why Gehenna was so particularly a "loathsome" place to them. It laterbecame the garbage pit. What does garbage do? It rots and flies lay their eggs in it and those then turn into maggots. These maggots, due to their constant presence are the "worm that will not die." The Jews would often burn their the garbage (including dead bodies) where once again the fires would burn day and night. This is the "fire that will not be quenched." One cannot see a dead body in the spiritual hell, can they? But the Jews could see those dead bodies in Gehenna the garbage pit, so this reference was completely understood by them. Not a place of ternal torment...a garbage pit.
Last edited by Fullback32; 07-30-2009 at 07:59 PM..
The article states there were ~345,000 new believers on '07 & ~342,000 new believers in '08. That's a 1% decline. But, that still adds up to just under 700,000 new belevers over a 2-year period.
As an example, in Psalm 16:10, David ostensibly says:
“For thou will not leave my soul in Hell neither wilt thou suffer thine holy one (Jesus) to see corruption.”
Are we to assume that David was hellbound? And isn't it so that supposedly once one has gone to hell, there is no way out? So what did David mean here? And BTW, this is NOT any reference to Jesus' resurrection. Read it in context and you will see that.
Because David was a believer, God had cancelled his "ticket to Hell". Instead, he was destined to spend eternity with God (verse 11).
The article states there were ~345,000 new believers on '07 & ~342,000 new believers in '08. That's a 1% decline. But, that still adds up to just under 700,000 new belevers over a 2-year period.
Must be the new math they forced on us in the late 60's.
Must be the new math they forced on us in the late 60's.
All I see is a one percent drop.
Yes, a 1% drop in new believers from '07 to '08. But how many new believers did SB churches report in that two-year span (according to the article)?
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