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Old 07-31-2009, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate View Post
I'm so glad you posted this, as I was going to share my explorations. I looked into the Mormon church and found that I appreciate their family orientation but the other elements were just not for me. Still, I will open my home to the missionaries and cook for them, with the disclosure that I already have my faith and that I do this because we share a love of God.

I read about Buddhism, and so far, it is where my interest is piqued. But it isn't a religion - which explains why I'm probably so drawn to it. It's more of a philosophy and a way of life. However, they do not believe in a god or blind faith. We are solely responsible for our own spiritual health and purification; I agree with this wholeheartedly. THIS is organic to me. Still, I believe in God as much as I embrace their philosophy. So I'm not sure I'd be an acceptable Buddhist, although they pride themselves in being impartial and accept everyone. This concern is likely to be projection on my part, a habit resulting from what I was taught.

By the way, I have never met an Atheist, nor have I ever been exposed more than knowing the definition. I don't know the day to day or the ins and outs. I find your post to be incredibly profound and objective. That alone has incredible value to me. I'd love to know more about your beliefs.
Thank you With most things I try to take a step back and rationalize exactly what is going on, especially regarding religion (and lack thereof, in many cases). I've always thought that religion and beliefs are a personal thing and no two people are going to be alike. My uncle is a Pagan and I REALLY enjoy waxing philosophical with him, he's a very intelligent man. My boyfriends mother is mostly Taoist in her beliefs, but she does take others into consideration and studies the Vedas for her own personal benefit.

As an Atheist, my day to day actions are probably more similar to yours than you would guess. I go to work, I hang out with people, I walk my dogs.. pretty mundane stuff, really. You've probably met a few Atheists but simply didn't know they were... plus many are afraid to admit that they are non-believers because we can lose jobs, lose friends, and the biggest for me, be the target of constant tries for conversion. It's pretty irritating to be constantly told you're wrong and you're going to 'hell' and I think that's where many people get their 'militant Atheist' descriptions from. You can only take so much of it until you start screaming and yelling

I think my main belief that I focus the most energy on is Wiccan/Pagan (and others, I'm sure), which is 'First, do no harm'. I actually wear a ring that has that engraving on it, much like a Christian wears a cross. It reminds me to do good things, try to be objective and live and let live. It's a simple philosophy, really.

I think you're in the beginning part of a very exciting philosophical journey
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:37 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,546,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate View Post
I believe in God, and it is that faith that keeps me in line. I believe the commandments exist to help build and maintain a strong moral compass, though I don't believe them to be a purely Catholic concept. I question a great deal, like the accounts in the bible. I feel that faith is what gives it credibility. It is the same faith that does not allow me to question the existence of God. In the opinion of some, this makes me agnostic. I don't know one way or the other. I know what I feel.

Organized religion just doesn't sit well with me. There are so many different practices and beliefs. So, I am always failing somewhere, to someone. I can't process there being a Catholic god, a Mormon god, a Jewish god, a Muslim god and so on. If there is one God, how can there be so many conflicting beliefs and practices? I'm not criticizing any one religion, I just can't bring myself to be accountable to any of them.

Many of my friends have their faith, some are devout, some are not. We have discussions but as they arise. We join in charitable activities - though the ones I participate in are not church based. I don't know that I have to gather with them as much as live among them and embrace them every day. I'm not limiting myself to one organization, one day a week.

That's all I've got.
As I understand the/my Catholic perspective non-Christian religions, exempting maybe Judaism, do not have divine revelation. Therefore their understanding of God is based in things like culture, reason, human psychology, and nature. This does not make them evil or bad or even false, as such, but does explain why they're deficient and have varied views. They're like the proverbial "blind men and the elephant", except unlike in the traditional parable I'd say blind people can probably make a reasonable statement about what an elephant is based on touch and smell. Likewise some cultures make a reasonable guesstimate of God and the Truth, but not always the same estimate.

I never went to Catholic school and I'm aware many had negative experiences. If you think of Catholicism as "programming" than it might be best you are away from it awhile. And your life is of course your own to figure out as you will. Still I think you shouldn't dismiss guilt totally as it's useful in many cases. It's also a natural human emotion that I'm sure atheists have as well. Ideally it can inspire you to right injustices or help those you may have harmed. Ideally "Catholic guilt", in specific, may have inspired people to help the weakest among us.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:02 PM
 
Location: nc
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I think you make a wonderful point about the benefits of guilt, kind of like this thing I heard on "The Gift of Fear," and emotions we tend to see as 'negative' being quite useful in our journeys. I myself loved Catholic school when I was little but that was after the rulers people speak of. I see the term of 'Catholic guilt' to be encompassing when we feel overly guilty about things in a desire to achieve a perfection that mankind is not capable of, instead of embracing accomplishments...the old term 'being too hard on yourself sometimes'. As for Catholicism, individual views my vary, but the Church has a very strong center I think and it is pretty firm. As for not having divine revelation, Christian text, the Bible, is based on divine revelation, or at least what Christians see as divine revelation.
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Old 08-04-2009, 01:11 PM
 
Location: south Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
No disrespect intended...but it sounds like you're a little confused about what Christianity is. You make a good observation--there cannot be multiple Gods. You need to find yourself a good Bible-teaching church.
No disrespect back at you but the Catholic Church IS and has always been a Bible teaching church. Were it not for the Catholic Church - the first Christian faith of any kind - keeping the Bible alive for centuries, there would be NO Bible.
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Old 08-04-2009, 05:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate View Post
Pardon me if this is long, but I've been thinking a lot about this over the last few days.

I was raised Catholic, went to parochial school, went through the sacraments - some of you know the drill. As I grew into adulthood, I realized the Catholic church just didn't feel like home and it never really did. It was more routine and I never really felt the draw. I couldn't take it seriously with the stuff I saw day to day.

I looked into other places to worship and I felt really guilty about it, like I was betraying my faith. But I eventually accepted the lack of interest and grew into the reality that I felt no need for organized religion. I have my faith, I do my best to live the right way and give back. I'm happy with that.

Still, there's a side, albeit very small, that still nags at me. Though it is small, meaning it won't change anything, it is ever-present. Instead of lamenting over it, I try to examine it. All I can come up with is that I am probably not fully "de-programmed". Guilt was a huge motivator in the church and in school. Then there are people I have met all through my life who tell me that I was meant to serve God. Have we met? I am absolutely not the example of someone who does God's work. Not that I'm mean or hurtful, but I am way too free-spirited and liberal minded. I'll do my best to live right and leave the big stuff to someone more "qualified".

What are your thoughts, I'm almost afraid to ask. LOL.
I am a recovering Roman Catholic myself.

That wee bit of guilt you feel is part of the indoctrination process we underwent when still highly impressionable children.

Once you realize that it was artificially instilled into your worldview specifically to keep you from straying when you became a free thinking adult, it dissipates rather quickly.
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Old 08-04-2009, 05:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
No disrespect intended...but it sounds like you're a little confused about what Christianity is. You make a good observation--there cannot be multiple Gods. You need to find yourself a good Bible-teaching church.
Firstly, almost each and every deity on the planet, for which we have dated archeologicalm and archival evidence, is older than Jehovah, in some cases by the tens of thousands of years.

So yes, if one is a Theist, there are indeed multiple gods.

Even your own scripture recognizes this...

Exodus 20:3
Deuteronomy 5:7 13:13
Judges 10:13 13:7 16:17 18:14
1 Samuel 25:34 26:19
1 Kings 9:6

For the glaring examples.

Secondly, who do you think was the first organized Christian Church?

Which church was in place when Constantine utilized your religion for his own political gain and gave your religion the shot in the arm it needed to survive. (Ever wonder why it's called "Roman" Catholic and located in Rome?)

And which Churches/Sects were present at the first Nicene Convention in 325 CE where your Christ was lionized, canonized, and made into a divine figure?
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:35 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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I'm pretty sure kdbrich is Protestant.

Also Christ was recognized as a divine figure long before the Council of Nicea. It is indicated by the Gospels, particularly John. Even if John is later it's certainly well before Nicea. As are the writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers on the subject.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I'm pretty sure kdbrich is Protestant.

Also Christ was recognized as a divine figure long before the Council of Nicea. It is indicated by the Gospels, particularly John. Even if John is later it's certainly well before Nicea. As are the writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers on the subject.
Obviouly he isn't a Catholic.

And on a very quick google...

The Nicene Creed Q and A
What was the reason for the Nicene Creed? The Nicene Creed was formed as a statement of Christian faith – to clarify differing opinions as to whether and in what ways Jesus Christ was God. The source of the dispute that had precipitated the Nicene convention was that of a presbyter named Arius from Alexandria (in today’s Egypt). Arius had stated that Jesus: “… is not equal to God, nor yet is he of the same substance.” In response, the creed adopted by the Council articulated the belief that Jesus is “of one substance” with God the Father.

What are the key differences between the original Nicene Creed and the Nicene Creed as we know it today? The Nicene Creed of today contains additional language to reinforce the Catholic (and Protestant) affirmation that Jesus is the “only” and “eternally” begotten Son of God the Father. The modern creed states that Jesus “came down from heaven,” reinforces the “power of the Holy Spirit,” identifies the role of the Virgin Mary and the crucifixion under Pontius Pilate. The Jesus of the modern creed “is seated at the right hand of the Father,” will come again “in glory,” and his kingdom will “have no end.”
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Old 08-05-2009, 04:43 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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Traditionally I wouldn't look to a site called "jesustheheresy" for neutral or strictly factual information, but that's just me.
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:31 PM
 
4,474 posts, read 5,411,259 times
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Traditionally I wouldn't look to a site called "jesustheheresy" for neutral or strictly factual information, but that's just me.
Is it, or is it not, accurate?
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