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Old 08-05-2009, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,366 posts, read 17,419,003 times
Reputation: 9792
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
TV Evangelists and Fundamentalists ARE Christianity, they represent their forms of your religion.

And please, the "study it and maybe you'll see the light" tactic is as old as the attempts at guilt and fear, and works just as well too.
Actually studying Christianity and the bible worked very well for me...I studied, saw the light and discovered the truth. Consequently I am now an Atheist.

 
Old 08-05-2009, 01:43 PM
Status: "Goin' to Disney World!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
6,640 posts, read 2,579,155 times
Reputation: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Well, maybe he should have changed that rule, and only requried an apology, or a well thought out note and some assorted cheeses.
The creator makes the rules...
 
Old 08-05-2009, 02:08 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,071,670 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Actually studying Christianity and the bible worked very well for me...I studied, saw the light and discovered the truth. Consequently I am now an Atheist.
They STILL manage to catch some people with that old and tattered net, I'm afraid.

Just look at the increases in Catholicism in poor, under- or uneducated third world countries.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,366 posts, read 17,419,003 times
Reputation: 9792
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
They STILL manage to catch some people with that old and tattered net, I'm afraid.

Just look at the increases in Catholicism in poor, under- or uneducated third world countries.
Education is the key to enlightenment.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,028 posts, read 6,404,388 times
Reputation: 6479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
What many people don't realize is that we mere mortals don't know everything. We don't have all the answers about history or the universe or whatever.

Those of us (like myself) who believe in an afterlife will know all the answers once we are there. The non-believers, well they can "enjoy" being in the empty void which all non-believers end up in.
You know I really love this statement, here you say that we don't know anything because we are mortals and then in the next sentence you state that we will know everything and then you assume that nonbelievers end up somewhere different.

And just how do you know this when you state that as a mortal we don't know everything. You have kinda contradicted yourself here.

First you say you don't know everything and then you say you know where people are going after they pass away...
 
Old 08-05-2009, 04:29 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,071,670 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The creator makes the rules...
Since mankind is the creator, I guess WE make the rules then.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 04:56 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,356 posts, read 3,268,717 times
Reputation: 1687
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The creator makes the rules...

I guess my bigger point is that we humans have words that mean things. Word like "just", "merciful", "good", and "honorable" all have specific meanings. We also have words like "wicked", "petty", "merciless", and "terrible." Those words have meanings, too.

The problem is that Christians describe their God like that first set of words, but when you read the bible, you find out he is more accurately describe by the second set of words. Not only is he not that first set of words, his actions show him to be the exact opposite of the first set.

So Christians say their God believe in freewill. But then you find out he used to kill people for not worshiping him, and even now threatens you with eternal damnation if you don't worship him. That is not freewill. That is extortion.

And Christians say God is merciful and just. But then you read stories where he ordered his followers to commit genocide, kill all the men women and children, except they could keep the virgins for their sex slaves. Or how a raped woman could be foreced to marry her rapist - she might even get stoned to death if she didn't cry out for help during the rape! He had children mauled by a bear for making fun of a bald guy!

Christians say their God is sinless and perfect, but then you read that he has done some of the very things he has described as sin. He says it is a sin to punish a child for the crimes of his father, but then he admits that he punished children for the crimes of their parents.

There is a huge gap between how Christians describe their God, and the evidence contained in the bible depicting Gods true character.


Bare in mind I don't believe your god really exist. I just marvel at how you are using words to mean the exact opposite, in true 1984 Orwellian fashion.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 06:20 PM
Status: "Goin' to Disney World!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
6,640 posts, read 2,579,155 times
Reputation: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post

So Christians say their God believe in freewill. But then you find out he used to kill people for not worshiping him, and even now threatens you with eternal damnation if you don't worship him. That is not freewill. That is extortion.
No, He will punish you (of course, I mean you, me, & all mankind) for your sin, unless you repent & accept Christ's sacrifice in your place. God is Holy & cannot tolerate sin in His presence. The free will part is whether or not you will make that decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
And Christians say God is merciful and just. But then you read stories where he ordered his followers to commit genocide, kill all the men women and children, except they could keep the virgins for their sex slaves. Or how a raped woman could be foreced to marry her rapist - she might even get stoned to death if she didn't cry out for help during the rape! He had children mauled by a bear for making fun of a bald guy!
In the incident you speak of, God told King Moses to kill everyone of the Midianites because they were evil & wicked. Their women had acted as prostitutes & had seduced the Israelite men, for which they (the Israelites) were punished.

According to the Matthew Henry Commentary, the women and children were not kept for sinful purposes, but for slaves, a custom everywhere practiced in former times, as to captives.

The point is, God will punish sin (although He is very patient with us).

ETA: I appreciate your honesty about how you feel & the fact that we can have a civil debate.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 06:36 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,071,670 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
No, He will punish you (of course, I mean you, me, & all mankind) for your sin, unless you repent & accept Christ's sacrifice in your place. God is Holy & cannot tolerate sin in His presence. The free will part is whether or not you will make that decision.

In the incident you speak of, God told King Moses to kill everyone of the Midianites because they were evil & wicked. Their women had acted as prostitutes & had seduced the Israelite men, for which they (the Israelites) were punished.

According to the Matthew Henry Commentary, the women and children were not kept for sinful purposes, but for slaves, a custom everywhere practiced in former times, as to captives.

The point is, God will punish sin (although He is very patient with us).

ETA: I appreciate your honesty about how you feel & the fact that we can have a civil debate.
People "sin" everyday, all over the world.

Billions of examples of people "sinning".

Guess your god is on break, eh, perhaps can't find any new Moses to do his dirty work?
 
Old 08-05-2009, 10:29 PM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,224,472 times
Reputation: 293
I and others have asked this simple question:

What sin?

The whole theist argument departs from the premise that you are guilty irrespective of proof hence you lot defer to the sin of Adam and Eve.

Please answer this question:

What sin or if you prefer what sins?

You may have more credibility if you said "human imperfections" but we are lambasted with our supposed sins.

The word sin means falling short of the mark so while you are about it explain what this mark is. I am not an archer so I cannot correlate the simile.
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