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Unread 08-06-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,145,884 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
What sins? Well, have you ever been angry, or bitter about something?
yes but your god seems to have the same traits
Quote:
Ever been worried or afraid?
Yup, fear and worry are survival instincts
Quote:
How about arrogant or proud as in pride?
Arrogant yes in certain instances, proud in my achievements and that of my children - sure. Is that a sin?
Quote:
Have you ever gossiped or told a lie?
Yup, we all have.
Quote:
Have you ever lusted after someone or something?
Nope, usually on the sexual front, I was an over achiever
Quote:
Did you ever disobey your parents?
Yup and they punished me
Quote:
Did you ever steal anything, even a piece of candy?
Yup and was caught and punished.
Quote:
These are examples of personal sins. BUT, the point is that God NEVER imputed those personal sins to you for judgement. Instead, He temporarily set them aside until that time in human history when Christ paid the penalty for them.
So Christ died for something my parents already took care of?
Quote:
As I explained in previous posts on this same thread, the only sin ever imputed to us was Adams original sin. And I did an excellent job of explaining it. If anyone is interested, please go back and read it and think about what I was saying. The only reason God comdemned us for Adam's original sin instead of our own personal sins is so He could set up a situation where you could secure an eternal relationship with Him instead of being in a situation where your continued relationship with Him depended on continued obedience if He had imputed your personal sins to you.
So Adam the supposed gggggggggg grand father screwed up and now I've to pay for something I had no influence/control over?
Quote:
The mark is Gods absolute and perfect rightousness and justice which is His Holiness. Or if you prefer, His integrity.
See previous post, we were thus set up to fail.
Quote:
Gods perfect rightousness cannot have fellowship with man's inperfect and relative rightousness. Unlike man, God can not and will not compromise any aspect of His nature.
So we screwed from the onset, sounds like a lose-lose scenario to me.
Quote:
A human judge finds a criminal guilty of a crime and pronounces judgement on him.
So sin is a crime now? Bad analogy. Crimes are dictated by secular laws. Whether I want to screw my neighbor's wife has nothing to do with the laws of the land, I of course will reap the wrath of my wife and the neighbor's husband - not worth it plus I love my wife.
Quote:
Would you expect anything less from an eternal, infinite, and Holy God. He must apply justice where justice is due.
So my parents took care of my misdemeanors and I turned out alright but god has still got it in for me?
Quote:
But because He is also love, He found a solution to the sin problem by making it possible for one man, Jesus Chist, to pay the penalty for all. And Jesus, because He loved us volunteered to do this.
So Jesus died to back up what my parents already took care of?

I am being facetious in this reply but as you can see, the "sins" you infer were already punished or I have reaped the rewards for bad decisions. So god has a scorecard and no matter what "crime" I have committed, he never forgets yet you say he is love? Geez, my dad forgave me eventually and I was a real s#1t as a kid.

And you want me to worship him/it?

Since my deconversion, I sleep better and no longer have guilt trips about anything. You know those prayers bouncing off the ceiling? I finally realized that on the other side of the ceiling is ceiling insulation and roof tiles. The voices in my head have also stopped.

 
Unread 08-06-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: UK
296 posts, read 494,452 times
Reputation: 292
That whole "Jesus died for our sins" story is violent, sick and juvenile. Personally, I think that telling this pathetic story to children is a form of child abuse.
 
Unread 08-06-2009, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,061 posts, read 17,598,674 times
Reputation: 10065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plain Jane 3953 View Post
That whole "Jesus died for our sins" story is violent, sick and juvenile. Personally, I think that telling this pathetic story to children is a form of child abuse.
And, having committed child abuse, you would have sinned. Thus...
 
Unread 08-06-2009, 05:35 PM
 
11,398 posts, read 5,226,530 times
Reputation: 1518
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
yes but your god seems to have the same traits
Yup, fear and worry are survival instincts
Arrogant yes in certain instances, proud in my achievements and that of my children - sure. Is that a sin?
Yup, we all have.
Nope, usually on the sexual front, I was an over achiever
Yup and they punished me
Yup and was caught and punished.
So Christ died for something my parents already took care of?
So Adam the supposed gggggggggg grand father screwed up and now I've to pay for something I had no influence/control over?
See previous post, we were thus set up to fail.
So we screwed from the onset, sounds like a lose-lose scenario to me.
So sin is a crime now? Bad analogy. Crimes are dictated by secular laws. Whether I want to screw my neighbor's wife has nothing to do with the laws of the land, I of course will reap the wrath of my wife and the neighbor's husband - not worth it plus I love my wife.
So my parents took care of my misdemeanors and I turned out alright but god has still got it in for me?
So Jesus died to back up what my parents already took care of?

I am being facetious in this reply but as you can see, the "sins" you infer were already punished or I have reaped the rewards for bad decisions. So god has a scorecard and no matter what "crime" I have committed, he never forgets yet you say he is love? Geez, my dad forgave me eventually and I was a real s#1t as a kid.

And you want me to worship him/it?

Since my deconversion, I sleep better and no longer have guilt trips about anything. You know those prayers bouncing off the ceiling? I finally realized that on the other side of the ceiling is ceiling insulation and roof tiles. The voices in my head have also stopped.
You just don't get it and apparently don't want to. You completely failed to grasp what I have said. God does not hold your sins against you. He has gone to great lengths so that we don't have to suffer the penalty for our sins as they relate to eternal salvation or eternal comdemnation. And you are never supposed to feel guilty for your sins. Any person or church that tries to make you feel guilty for your sins does not understand the grace of God.

But here is good news for you. I think you said earlier that you used to be a believer. Well, if at some point in your life you did believe in Christ for salvation, then even though you no longer do, you are still saved and have and always will have eternal life and will spend all eternity in the presence of God. You will never lose your salvation. THAT is the result of Adams orginal sin being imputed to you instead of your own personal sins. This is what God has done for YOU.
 
Unread 08-06-2009, 05:44 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 2,848,327 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You just don't get it and apparently don't want to. You completely failed to grasp what I have said. God does not hold your sins against you. He has gone to great lengths so that we don't have to suffer the penalty for our sins as they relate to eternal salvation or eternal comdemnation. And you are never supposed to feel guilty for your sins. Any person or church that tries to make you feel guilty for your sins does not understand the grace of God.

But here is good news for you. I think you said earlier that you used to be a believer. Well, if at some point in your life you did believe in Christ for salvation, then even though you no longer do, you are still saved and have and always will have eternal life and will spend all eternity in the presence of God. You will never lose your salvation. THAT is the result of Adams orginal sin being imputed to you instead of your own personal sins. This is what God has done for YOU.
BUT!...

We have to fall down in absolute supplication to your gods, go to church and tithe regularly, follow the laws of the church explicitly (or at least "repent" on a regular basis for breaking those "laws") including helping to coerce others into the religion, etc, etc, or we go to hell.

Gotcha.

We need to ignore a few facts along the way tho, like your scripture being disproven without any effort by simple sciences, and clear contradictions like your same scriptures claiming that a child may not be punished for the sins of their father, which indicates to a thinking person that No One is culpable of any "original sin".

That about sums it up?
 
Unread 08-06-2009, 05:45 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 2,848,327 times
Reputation: 727
Oh wait... wait.. is that... guilt?

Oh, no, only gas.
 
Unread 08-06-2009, 06:02 PM
 
25,171 posts, read 31,073,948 times
Reputation: 6643
There are a billion other contradictory scripture quotes that say that Jesus didn't really die for you to keep on sinning. Also I believe Calvinistic Christianity believes only the special are saved, everybody is going to hell regardless of how you behave or how often you pray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NihonKitty View Post
Why do christians always say this? I am japanese, jesus did not die for my sins. I have absolutely nothing to do with a woman he created out of dirt and a rib (lol?) who ate a fruit from a magical tree because a talking snake told her too.

I look at it like this, imagine a car salesman comes to your house and says, we made this car for you! You need to buy it now and drive it everyday! First of all I did not ask for you to make that car, so no I don't need to buy it. I did not ask for jesus to die for "my sins" (who is really the sins of only eve not me), jesus died for nothing then, and his death was absolutely no different then what other people suffered under the romans. Did all the other humans who were crucified also die for me? Jesus did not die for me period, he was murdered, I did not ask for anything, nor did i ask to go to a "heaven" that I didn't even know about until i visited the USA.

Also if jesus died for my sins, then i am going to go sin and sin and sin since he died for my sins already right? Doesn't make any sense. God didnt have to send his son (who is also himself lol) to die for his creations, he could have just made it so. I feel bad for jesus and the bad treatment he got from his father (who is also himself) and the bad logic for his death.
 
Unread 08-06-2009, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
8,407 posts, read 5,788,271 times
Reputation: 10545
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
Oh wait... wait.. is that... guilt?

Oh, no, only gas.
I really wish God hadn't created farts.
 
Unread 08-06-2009, 06:05 PM
 
25,171 posts, read 31,073,948 times
Reputation: 6643
He also created morons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
I really wish God hadn't created farts.
 
Unread 08-06-2009, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
8,407 posts, read 5,788,271 times
Reputation: 10545
Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
He also created morons.
Yeah, that probably wasn't a good idea.
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