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Old 08-07-2009, 02:00 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,113,751 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You have been given the reason why we all must be saved. You simply don't accept the reason.

The religions you speak of were counterfeits of Satan. The Gospel was given to Adam immediately after he fell. Satan knew the details involved with the future coming Messiah and it was a simple matter to introduce into the world in advance of the fact, counterfeit religions telling of messiahs that appear similar to the true Messiah, Jesus Christ. The reason was to cause confusion and doubt.

After the flood, God resculptured the planet. The mountains were raised and the valleys sank down. The ocean basins were deepened to contain the waters in their boundaries. The present day oceans are the flood waters that covered the earth. Science tends to reqard the geology of the earth from a uniformism perspective. But the geologic history of our planet is better seen from the perspective of catastrophism. The flood was a catastrophy that disposited marine fossils on the tops of mountains and in other places that you might not expect to find them. Science incorrectly attributes those fossils to ancient oceans. Things of that nature.

Rather than disproving the Bible, archaeology from time to time confirms the Bible in matters of history.

Yes, my message is the same as others have stated. And the message is true. And that message is as old as the counsels of God from eternity past.

I do understand some of your antagonisn toward the Bible since you were involved with Roman Catholicism. Very little of what it teaches is Biblically correct. The Catholic church is another counterfeit religion from Satan and is not true Christianity.

It is clear to me now that you are set in your disbelief and so there is no futher point in continuing on with this. So I leave you to your disbelief. Carry on.
You've given nothing but the standard vague evasions. Certainly I will not accept such.

False religions? You mean to say that the entirety of the all teree Abrahamic religions, Judeism, Crhistianity, and Islam, was given to the world by your "Satan" then. So noted.

And puhleeze, "god reshaped the earth"? Utter horse****. The ONLY mountaintops that contain marine fossils are found in the Rockies. Why? Because 33 million years ago, the rockies were part of the sea bed of an inland sea that has been thrust up by tetonic forces as the US continential plate shoves against the Pacific Plate. Any more BS you'd like me to debunk?

Also archeology does not prove anything in the bibles that deals with myths or miracles. Just because Joe Gospel wrote about Town A down the road that existed during his time means nothing and contributes nothing to the imagined infallablity of your scriptures. The earth is not flat, is not the center of the universe, doesn't contain enough water to inundate the surface, man didn't "pop" into existance, we know speicies, including us, have evolved well after the 4.6 million old earth formed, et cetera ad nauseum. These are all scientifically proven facts. And there are no non-biblical references to your jesus or any of his alleged "miracles" as well.

And sorry to say, fella, your god isn't any older than 3,000 years old. There is NO archival or archeological evidence for your god prior to that point in time in the ENTIRE 200,000 history of modern man.

And my "antagonism" towards your holy bable stems from one source and one source only. Christians. Christians who insult me and MY Deities constantly and continually by basing their comments, and their theocratic agenda of forcing their religion down everyone's throat within US secular Laws, on an ancient manuscript proven wrong so many times as to turn those scriptures into nothing more than a badly written fictional novel.

And don't let the door hitcha, your leaving this debate is of no great loss to me in the least, as much as you'd like me to be oh so disappointed and dejected by your absence.

 
Old 08-07-2009, 03:27 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
6,693 posts, read 2,657,858 times
Reputation: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by achickenchaser View Post
How did one get on God's happy side before Jesus? Being a good person and keeping the sin to a minimum? If that's the case, more people stood a decent chance before Christ to avoid eternal damnation. Or did everyone back then all go to hell because, as one can gather from the Old Testament, God was not a happy camper in those days.
Basically the same way we do now. Believe God. God also required a blood sacrifice (spotless lamb) for the remission of sins. Jesus was the final & ultimate blood sacrifice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by achickenchaser View Post
What about the billions of people today who live good, moral lives but pick the wrong religion and will one day be cast into the pits of hell with me.
Can you detail for me what a good, moral life is? How many sins are too many?

You may live a "good, moral life", but you're still a sinner in God's eyes. One sin is too many. The blood of Jesus washes those sins away. After that, you are holy & righteous before God & can spend eternity in His presence.
 
Old 08-07-2009, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 11,924,207 times
Reputation: 2027
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Basically the same way we do now. Believe God. God also required a blood sacrifice (spotless lamb) for the remission of sins. Jesus was the final & ultimate blood sacrifice.



Can you detail for me what a good, moral life is? How many sins are too many?

You may live a "good, moral life", but you're still a sinner in God's eyes. One sin is too many. The blood of Jesus washes those sins away. After that, you are holy & righteous before God & can spend eternity in His presence.
What qualifies as a sin?
 
Old 08-07-2009, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 6,688,259 times
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Default A Brief Treatise on Dying for Your Sins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The reason was to cause confusion and doubt.

And the justification for that screwball strategy in any rational belief system? i.e.: to purposefully sow untruths? Seems like this is just another on the long line of rationalizations to cover up the strengths of other concepts inherent in other belief systems you don'f find "convenient".

After the flood, God resculptured the planet. The mountains were raised and the valleys sank down. The ocean basins were deepened to contain the waters in their boundaries. The present day oceans are the flood waters that covered the earth. Science tends to reqard the geology of the earth from a uniformism perspective.

Ummm.... no....absolutely wrong. Perhaps in the geology texts you may have read in the late '50s, or in refences provided by Answers in Genesis or other false mumbo-jumbo fakery.

You are, quite simply, completely wrong, ill-informed or purposefully misleading people with such incorrect information. I doubt you have a degree in geology, or even any minor undergraduate knowledge of this complex subject. Uniformism in geology died, most abruptly, when J. Harlen Bretz finally got his "theories" about Glacial Lake Missoula finally accepted by a sceptical geoscience crowd.

Today such worldwide catastrophic geological events have been more than proven. We need no more provide further proof of that that we do that a wheel is round, that the Earth has a moon satellite, or that shellfish fossils on mountain tops are trere precisely because of tectonic upthrusting.

Which, by the way, is quite easily measured and thus confirmed by GPS/laser monitoring over the past 25 or so years. Yessirree; they are moving, and up, in most cases. We back-calculate, and what do we find, by the simplest of extrapolations?

That these mountaintops used to be under water. Flood depositions are never, let me repeat that word, NEVER, found in ultra--fine slow-flow sedimetary patterns, but rather, as you'd have to logically agree, catastrophically deposited.

Then there's the unpleasant (for Christians, anyhow) truth of nuclear dating technololgies that coincidentally place world-wide deposits at the same ages for mountains of the same age, but different for mountains of different ages.. No single event caused them all. In fasct, there is absolutely no coincident evidence for a unitary global flood event other than in the Christian imagination. Such an event would have very predictable "forensic" evidence, so to speak. Nope, None, unless we "bend" the hell out of scientific principles.

Well, too bad for the factless mythology of hope and mis-information, huh?


But the geologic history of our planet is better seen from the perspective of catastrophism.

Thank you. In this, all of geoscience agrees. just not, again, in one huge, global catastrophic event. That much has been thoroughly disproved to the point that geology no longer addresses it. Why, you might well ask? Arrogance? Nope. We're all at home, in our badement bathrooms, door closed, silently reading this month's "Global Science Conspiracy" newsletter [plain brown wrapper] and nodding in rapt agreement on this month's strategy for lies? No, sorry. Actually, it's rather simple.

As I've said many times before, "Science abandons the absurd".


The flood was a catastrophy that disposited marine fossils on the tops of mountains and in other places that you might not expect to find them. Science incorrectly attributes those fossils to ancient oceans. Things of that nature.

So... a huge, seething global flood carried mussel shells and big old Trilobites, for example, to the tops of mountains? They remained near the surface of the water as it rapidly receeded, rather than following the usual behavior of heavier-than-water items that have been dislodged from their habitat, tumbling along DOWN as the waters subsided? How odd. Gravity musta been taking a holiday, huh?

Oh, and they were types of shellfish that had been extinct for literally millions of years as well. Hmmm # 2. or was it # 25?

See, these are the glaring little details that the fundy websites, for instance, would really rather not get into. Or, alternately, they'll warp the laws of nature and credulity by suggesting some wack-a-loon alternative-reality event system.

Nope, no sale. Didn't happen that way.

Well, you know the truth now. Oh, and BTW, "science" does not "attribute" anything. It's not a sentient being, it's simply a highly reliable, self-regulating Q&A system that works very hard to prevent bad or fraudulent answers, and counts heavily on reproducabiltiy and correct deductive reasoning, as well as open peer-review, unlike the information provided by Christian websites claiming to provide truthful information when they know in their heathen hearts they are lying.

Science is the exact polar opposite of the hit and miss, "wish-it-were" approach of Christianity as religion attempts to mould newfound knowledge and facts into a really bad fit in an old biblical, scientifically illiterate interpretation, that's now been proven utterly wrong so many times, it's tiresome to argue it.

Rather than disproving the Bible, archaeology from time to time confirms the Bible in matters of history.

Show us, please do. I'll gladly show you the truth in these cases. I'll bet my geology, biology and engineering educations on it.

Yes, my message is the same as others have stated. And the message is true. And that message is as old as the counsels of God from eternity past.

It is clear to me now that you are set in your disbelief and so there is no futher point in continuing on with this. So I leave you to your disbelief. Carry on.

A
nd you in yours. The difference is, our basis for knowledge continues to grow, the proofs ever more elegant and irrefutible. Previously unanswered questions, long held as some sort of proof of a God, are uncovered by new tools, new methods. These are then automatically attacked unmercifully, with barely any honest assessments, and accusations of fraud and endless hoaxery leveled at honest, hard-working scientists.

How insulting!

That the hundreds of millions of scientists in this world are all working together to mis-inform people, or are so stupid as to completely mis-interpret all of their careful dedicated research in geology, archeology, paleontology, biology, genetics, astronomy, chemistry, nuclear physics, DNA lineage tracking, etc. etc.

Odd, huh, that to the fundy mind it's ALL WRONG?.

Not to mention that such accusations come from people who never bother to look into this for themselves, to become even superficially educated in any of the subjects they so vehemently dispute. Rather they, quite oddly, believe the obviously self-serving agendas of Christian organizations. They and you criticize findings for which you both have absolutely no knowledge or deeper theoretical understanding, else you simply would not be so immediately dismissive of, for example, known and proven geological facts.

Against that backdrop is the unchanging obedience to more and more illogical, irrational fables, the requirement that all or most known physical constants (time space, light, gravity, astronomy, chemistry, etc.) were all different back then. Yet, as soon as history became reliably recorded, they all oddly and magically changed to the knowns we now utilize. Hmm...

To hang on in light of such information is, well, I'll let you decide the best descriptive word.

Essentially, there have been no "sins" other than basic human behavior and psychology from which we all stray, wander back, and stray again. As I said in an earlier post, the promise of hell-bent punishments for sins, and guilt-tripping via the mythical Jesus personality is simply power-mongering on the part of the big organized money-and power-hungry corporation called religion.

The sins here have been on the part of the Church, I"m afraid.

Last edited by rifleman; 08-07-2009 at 04:14 PM..
 
Old 08-07-2009, 03:34 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
6,693 posts, read 2,657,858 times
Reputation: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
What qualifies as a sin?
See post #210 for some examples, or read the 10 Commandments.
 
Old 08-07-2009, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 11,924,207 times
Reputation: 2027
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
See post #210 for some examples, or read the 10 Commandments.
Oh so besides the ten commandments ( which the top four are about ego) how into himself he must be, there are others? Well why did he not list those as well. And it seems God has broken most of his own rules, oh but again, the rules dont apply to him. Do as I say not as I do.
 
Old 08-07-2009, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 11,924,207 times
Reputation: 2027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
What sins? Well, have you ever been angry, or bitter about something? Ever been worried or afraid? How about arrogant or proud as in pride? Have you ever gossiped or told a lie? Have you ever lusted after someone or something? Did you ever disobey your parents? Did you ever steal anything, even a piece of candy? These are examples of personal sins. BUT, the point is that God NEVER imputed those personal sins to you for judgement. Instead, He temporarily set them aside until that time in human history when Christ paid the penalty for them. As I explained in previous posts on this same thread, the only sin ever imputed to us was Adams original sin. And I did an excellent job of explaining it. If anyone is interested, please go back and read it and think about what I was saying. The only reason God comdemned us for Adam's original sin instead of our own personal sins is so He could set up a situation where you could secure an eternal relationship with Him instead of being in a situation where your continued relationship with Him depended on continued obedience if He had imputed your personal sins to you.

The mark is Gods absolute and perfect rightousness and justice which is His Holiness. Or if you prefer, His integrity. Gods perfect rightousness cannot have fellowship with man's inperfect and relative rightousness. Unlike man, God can not and will not compromise any aspect of His nature. A human judge finds a criminal guilty of a crime and pronounces judgement on him. Would you expect anything less from an eternal, infinite, and Holy God. He must apply justice where justice is due. But because He is also love, He found a solution to the sin problem by making it possible for one man, Jesus Chist, to pay the penalty for all. And Jesus, because He loved us volunteered to do this.
So if I am worried or afraid and dont repent, I go to hell? If I dont clean my room like my parents said, I go to hell? Oh and I am being punished for a sin a guy did thousands of years ago, before I was even thought of? WOW, sorry but NONE of that seems like it is fair in anyway. And in reading the bible, with an open mind mind you, all I saw was, death, torture, abuse, slavery. If those are god's nature, you can forget it, he is not worthy of any worship. A true God would need none of that, or the ego trip.
 
Old 08-07-2009, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,296 posts, read 1,172,240 times
Reputation: 671
Well God does seem to have some serious trouble with Commandment 6.

and don't forget about misogyny.
 
Old 08-07-2009, 07:24 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,113,751 times
Reputation: 727
Still waiting for proof that Jesus even lived.

Shall I wait up?
 
Old 08-07-2009, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 6,688,259 times
Reputation: 3625
Talking Iconism Run Amok!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Yea this interpretation nonsense is just a cop out. Why not just write it the way you mean.The writers probably meant snake in a tree. people just need to find another meaning to explain the absurdness of it. How are people suppose to understand when everyone interprets it differently?
And they do interpret it differently, as necessary, relentlessly. The variability of interpretation is just one of the many things that make Christianity a joke in progress. The many optional interpretations make it quite the reliable little book of absolute and reliable prophesy, dontchathink?

Sorry; I feel no guilt that a made-up icon (Jesus) was supposedly nailed to a cross for something I hadn't done yet, and probably would never do!
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