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I did not say the bolded! Go back & look. I did say the second part.
Well surely, if he defeated death he didn't die? Irrespective, Even if he did 'die', he knew full well that he would only be dead for 3 days. So I ask again....what was the sacrifice in dying when he knew it's only for 3 days? If you were in a position to put the world to rights by being dead for 3 days but then coming back, would you not do it also?
Well surely, if he defeated death he didn't die? Irrespective, Even if he did 'die', he knew full well that he would only be dead for 3 days. So I ask again....what was the sacrifice in dying when he knew it's only for 3 days? If you were in a position to put the world to rights by being dead for 3 days but then coming back, would you not do it also?
Honestly, I've often thought the same thing.
There are lots of people who really DID die for others. People who made, real, permanent sacrifice so that others would have it better. Check this out:
http://www.pittecp.org/schools/mountaineering/site/images/Burning%20Monk.jpg (broken link)
That Monk set himself on fire, and never moved a muscle. He did that to protest they way the Buddhist were being treated by the Christian government in Vietnam.
THAT was a sacrifice. Killing himself to draw attention to the plight, so that others would have the right to practice their religion in peace.
In the Jesus story, his sacrifice wasn't all that big. It's better than nothing, but there are millions of people who have given more. I don't know why Christians go on like he's the only person who gave his life for others - particularly since he knew it wasn't a permanent sacrifice to begin with. And really, the Romans caught him, tried him, and killed him. Sure the bible claims he could have gotten away if he wanted to, but from the outside, it looks like the Romans just killed him, whether he wanted it or not.
Last edited by Boxcar Overkill; 08-09-2009 at 12:46 AM..
And really, the Romans caught him, tried him, and killed him. Sure the bible claims he could have gotten away if he wanted to, but from the outside, it looks like the Romans just killed him, whether he wanted it or not.
An excellent point! In the case of 'sacrifice' or 'martyrdom' it would have to be shown that the person had a choice in the matter in the first place. In the case of the monk you mentioned, that was a sacrifice because he had a choice whether or not to do what he did.
Can that be said of the Jesus character, or the 'martyred' apostles? Assuming they existed, can it be shown that the apostles were given the choice to renounce their beliefs but refused to do so and were thus martyrs or would they have been killed regardless and thus have been victims?
I don't think Jesus voluntarily went down town and turned himself in. If memory serves, he was hididng on the down low, but Judas sold him out. Then the guards came and took him away.
So even though the bible says Jesus sacrificed himself, the actual events make it look like the Romans found him and killed him just like a regular criminal, and he didn't have a lot of choice in the matter.
AxisMundi said I was incorrectly using the term Hades. I was showing him that the New testament does use the term. Pay attention.
You do know that "Hades" was originally the name for the Greek god of the underworld, right? It was not a place, per se, but an entity. Only became a place when christers needed somewhere to threaten people with.
Everybody lives on after death,we are dead from this evil corrupt world,our bodies are shells but our souls are eternal,it is just the choice of whether we we accepted Him as Lord and Saviour or rejected Him as to our final destination.
And your proof of this is....?
Have you ever been dead, to see what happens after death? You know anyone walking around today who was dead for three days and came back?
The difference here in your 2nd paragraph is that Jesus paid the price for us all where you would still have to buy the car off of the salesman if you wanted to purchase it.
Well if that's the case we should all be worshipping Oprah. Look under your seats, you're getting a car and you're getting a car, everyone's getting a car!!!!
Last edited by ElizaTeal; 08-09-2009 at 09:35 AM..
You do know that "Hades" was originally the name for the Greek god of the underworld, right? It was not a place, per se, but an entity. Only became a place when christers needed somewhere to threaten people with.
Neither use of the term makes it legitimate.
Yes. Hades was in Greek mythology the god of the underworld. The word Hades means underworld. The New Testament is mostly written in Greek and therefore the word Hades was used for the true underworld as described in the Bible as opposed to the mythological underworld of Greek mythology that the Greek god Hades resided over. Hades is divided into compartments. One of the compartments is called paradise. It is where Old Testament saints went when they died. After the work of Christ on the cross, the people residing in paradise were transferred to Heaven which is where believers in Christ now go to when their life on this earth ends. The other compartment in Hades is called torments. What people call Hell. It is where people who were not saved went and still go.
The Old Testament Hebrew word is Sheol. The Old Testament shows that the afterlife is not a Christian invention. Read if you will, 1 Samuel 28:7-20 regarding King Saul, the dead prophet Samuel, and the witch of Endor.
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