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Old 08-02-2009, 10:06 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 2,976,079 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I'm not meaning that they worship the God of Christianity. I'm simply meaning that a belief in the supernatural, creation, a high God, and the afterlife are very common. Almost universal.
I see, thank you for clarifying. And can I assume you do not offer that as proof and substantiation for your god?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I know you've said you're a pantheist, but I don't know what you mean by that. As I always understand pantheism it means that all-gods are part of the One-God and the One-God is the same as the Universe. It's not about God/gods being creating by the will of men.
It is the closest term that I can find, despite decades of looking, that illustrates my beliefs that all gods are created by Human Kind, and that all beings, human, celestial, or otherwise, are subjected to Natural Laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I'm not a Bible literalist. However humans being descended from humanoids does not prove/disprove we're all descended from one couple. We could be descended from Mitochondrial Eve and her guy. Okay maybe not, but still descending from humanoids doesn't say much on the matter. There's reason to think there have been population bottlenecks.

In any event these things are possibly teaching tools or exaggerations of real events for a purpose.
Agreed. But again, my arguments are directed towards YECers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
If you are only arguing with YECers than be clearer. The way you argue seems to slight all Christians whether you mean to or not.
Guilty conscious perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I take it you are over 50 then as I only said "immature" would count if you are that age.

The reason I think you're immature for a man that age is not because you smoke. You're immature because of the way you seem to get on a high-horse lecturing others. Because you seem so intensely suspicious of any Christian charity. There are lots of religions that I think are crud, but that doesn't mean I think all their charities are just scams designed to coerce or cajole people. Even the Scientologists, as much as I dislike them, likely have charities that are sincerely charitable. .
Firstly, I suggest researching those "charities". You will find that not all of the donations are not used for food, or even "administrative costs", but used for religious liturature and "spreading the word of god" in classic Evangelist fashion

You cannot convince me that a "charitable" organization would spend money on anything BUT food and any absolutely neccessary administrative costs. Even spending one penny on a religious brochure to send along with a pair of shoes to a child in a non-Christian area of the globe negates any sence of charity whatsoever.

Second, I care not if you think me immature or not. I am here to state my opinions, and hopefully turn a few minds towards rational, intelligent thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
You believe in things about the US that are almost totally erroneous. I've basically called you on this and you just puff and call me a liar.

If you actually knew US history you'd know that several states had established churches when the Founding Fathers were around. That John Jay even wanted to restrict the rights of Catholics. That compared to their era religions influence on politics is fairly weak. Much of New England has same-sex-marriage. Those were the states that had established churches back when. No one has to say the Pledge of Allegiance or swear on a Bible. The "God" in things like "In God We Trust" has pretty much always been deemed a civic deism. Lastly the "Declaration of Independence" mentions a "Creator" something you don't believe in.

You've created a US in your mind that never existed. That you whine, pout, or practically scream at me when I won't acknowledge it. The country you want to preserve is France, it fits the secular-state ideals you have, not the US. And you are angry.
1. I know well about those established churches, left over from our colonial era, and all de-established shortly after the Bill of Rights was signed into law.
2. No, they don't have to say the pledge. Children are more than free to stand there in silence and be targeted by other children later for being "godless America haters".
3. Haven't been to jury duty lately, have you. I don't get to do my civic duty because I refuse to swear on the bible and the local courts do not recognize my religion as a religion.
4. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion... just in case you missed that. Deism is still religion, and no Christian is going to recognize other deity. It is indeed your god being referenced, as if that mattered in the least.
5. Damn right I am angry, angry at those Christians who have eroded our Founding principles and instilled religion in our g'ment and laws, as well as instilled a sence within our culture that Christians somehow have a RIGHT to do so.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Midwest
19,673 posts, read 7,752,878 times
Reputation: 4180
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepsMom View Post
I'm pondering if Christians who are preaching "Good news" being genuine. According to this "good news", you are trying to save unbelievers from fiery hell. Bible told you to spread the news, to keep you from hell.
Let me ask you this, do you really care if unbelievers are saved? Or you do only care that by spreading "good news" You are reserving place in Heaven for yourself?

Don't tell me there is no "bonus" to you for preaching. I would call this act selfish.


Maybe that is why they don't talk to you anymore when you don't convert or "fall away".
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:30 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,859 posts, read 12,582,382 times
Reputation: 6436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
I see, thank you for clarifying. And can I assume you do not offer that as proof and substantiation for your god?
Correct. It does not prove the existence of my particular God or creed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AM
Firstly, I suggest researching those "charities". You will find that not all of the donations are not used for food, or even "administrative costs", but used for religious liturature and "spreading the word of god" in classic Evangelist fashion

You cannot convince me that a "charitable" organization would spend money on anything BUT food and any absolutely neccessary administrative costs. Even spending one penny on a religious brochure to send along with a pair of shoes to a child in a non-Christian area of the globe negates any sence of charity whatsoever.
I think this is rather unfair. For one I'm not convinced all Evangelical charities do this. For another even if I'm not a fan of "E"vangelical Christians I don't know why brochure kills everything. A poor Buddhist can just throw out whatever pamphlet they put in the box. I don't see how it negates the fact the kid has a box and shoes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AM
1. I know well about those established churches, left over from our colonial era, and all de-established shortly after the Bill of Rights was signed into law.
Depends on what one means by "short." Connecticut apparently had Congregationalism established until 1818. In Massachusetts the last blasphemy trial took place in 1838. Article 6 of New Hampshire's Constitution allowed towns to require support for Protestant teachers. This was not ended until 1968. It also did not allow non-Protestants to be in legislature until 1877, I believe this is years after the British allowed them.

The churching of America, 1776-2005 ... - Google Books

Church and state in American history ... - Google Books

The New Hampshire state constitution ... - Google Books


Quote:
Originally Posted by AM
4. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion... just in case you missed that. Deism is still religion, and no Christian is going to recognize other deity. It is indeed your god being referenced, as if that mattered in the least.
Deism is not a religion, but a position about God or god. See Aronow vs United States.

432 F2d 242 Aronow v. United States | Open Jurist
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:29 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,642 posts, read 13,510,893 times
Reputation: 11057
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
If you saw a person drowning, would you not try to rescue them? I'll only speak for myself, but I believe the future is grim for those who reject Christ. It's not only my duty (Matthew 28:19), but I want others to be saved from the judgement ahead. It may be difficult for you to believe, but many Christians actually do care.
I'm not drowning; and I know how to swim.
Leave me to my own devices.
If I want religion, I know where to find a church.

When you preach to me, you do a great disservice to all christian religions.
I resent your harassment and the more it happens, the more my respect erodes.

Leave.me.alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Are you routinely harassed by Christians?
Once is too often.
I get harassed regularly in the States and when I live near military communities.
I throw pitchers of water on people because I have a sign that clearly states that I don't want them to bother me. Ever.

Atheist Revolution: Ending Door-to-Door Proselytizing

Look about 1/3 down on the page.
This doesn't work, either.

Last edited by chielgirl; 08-03-2009 at 04:08 AM..
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 2,440,369 times
Reputation: 671
[quote=sanspeur;10074032]Deal with it..




Deal with it!!! HA HA!!!!
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:56 AM
 
Location: RI
18,098 posts, read 8,232,282 times
Reputation: 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepsMom View Post
I'm pondering if Christians who are preaching "Good news" being genuine. According to this "good news", you are trying to save unbelievers from fiery hell. Bible told you to spread the news, to keep you from hell.
Let me ask you this, do you really care if unbelievers are saved? Or you do only care that by spreading "good news" You are reserving place in Heaven for yourself?

Don't tell me there is no "bonus" to you for preaching. I would call this act selfish.
A true believer is doing nothing of the sought , and the bible says nothing of the sought.

Faith in Jesus as your Savior is not salvaltion from a fiery hell, it's Salvation from the result of fall of man which is death . Death no longer as a hold over them that believe., Just turn on the news and see what the effects of what the fall of man as been, for a closer look have a look at your own heart and all the hurt and pain it's gone through , some of your own doing some by others.

If this be true why wouldn't believers implore those who don't believe to believe ?.


19It was God [personally present] in Christ, reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against [men] their trespasses [but cancelling them], and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor).
20So we are Christ's ambassadors, God making His appeal as it were through us. We [as Christ's personal representatives] beg you for His sake to lay hold of the divine favor [now offered you] and be reconciled to God.
21For our sake He made Christ [virtually] to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in and through Him we might become endued with, viewed as being in, and examples of] the righteousness of God [what we ought to be, approved and acceptable and in right relationship with Him, by His goodness].
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,642 posts, read 13,510,893 times
Reputation: 11057
And for those of us who don't care about your religion?
Why force your belief system on others?
It's rude and harrassing.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,028 posts, read 16,666,083 times
Reputation: 9626
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
A true believer is doing nothing of the sought , and the bible says nothing of the sought.

Faith in Jesus as your Savior is not salvaltion from a fiery hell, it's Salvation from the result of fall of man which is death . Death no longer as a hold over them that believe., Just turn on the news and see what the effects of what the fall of man as been, for a closer look have a look at your own heart and all the hurt and pain it's gone through , some of your own doing some by others.

If this be true why wouldn't believers implore those who don't believe to believe ?.


19It was God [personally present] in Christ, reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against [men] their trespasses [but cancelling them], and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor).
20So we are Christ's ambassadors, God making His appeal as it were through us. We [as Christ's personal representatives] beg you for His sake to lay hold of the divine favor [now offered you] and be reconciled to God.
21For our sake He made Christ [virtually] to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in and through Him we might become endued with, viewed as being in, and examples of] the righteousness of God [what we ought to be, approved and acceptable and in right relationship with Him, by His goodness].
Well stay away from me....I consider your religion just a bogus as you consider religions other than your own, and your bible babble only proves to me that you are not quite capable of your own thoughts. Since I give no credibility to your bible, I find the spewing of scripture nonsense very annoying.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:15 AM
 
Location: RI
18,098 posts, read 8,232,282 times
Reputation: 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Well stay away from me....I consider your religion just a bogus as you consider religions other than your own, and your bible babble only proves to me that you are not quite capable of your own thoughts. Since I give no credibility to your bible, I find the spewing of scripture nonsense very annoying.
I will respect your wishes
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,028 posts, read 16,666,083 times
Reputation: 9626
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I will respect your wishes
Sorry pcamps, but I think I came off a bit too harsh there...We can get along fine if you don't preach or quote bible verses to me.....We may even become friends....Stranger things have happened.
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