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Old 08-24-2009, 06:09 PM
 
Location: 48205
382 posts, read 421,080 times
Reputation: 313

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ptsum: In defense of the Christians you've encountered that tried to convert you, maybe you can look at them and/or judge their actions from this perspective: Christians believe unsaved people/unbelievers/atheists/agnostics will go to hell IF they don't become saved-Confessing w/ your mouth the Lord Jesus and believing in your heart God rose Jesus from the dead after the crucifixion. Hence, it is out of caring and concern Christians attempt to convert as many unsaved people as possible, understanding we're all God's creation, but we're not all God's children. Maybe some of their methodology is wrong, or not as effective, however, their hearts and motives pure. Everyone is not good at everything, and we all have areas in which we need to grow. We're disciples, so my prayer is I always approach people w/ humility and kindness. All one can do is give people information. Whether the information is impactful and outcome determinative is up to that individual.
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:24 PM
 
804 posts, read 1,203,944 times
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How about the rest of it...

Matthew 19:12 For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:11 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,190,622 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by teejuris View Post
ptsum: In defense of the Christians you've encountered that tried to convert you, maybe you can look at them and/or judge their actions from this perspective: Christians believe unsaved people/unbelievers/atheists/agnostics will go to hell IF they don't become saved-Confessing w/ your mouth the Lord Jesus and believing in your heart God rose Jesus from the dead after the crucifixion. Hence, it is out of caring and concern Christians attempt to convert as many unsaved people as possible, understanding we're all God's creation, but we're not all God's children. Maybe some of their methodology is wrong, or not as effective, however, their hearts and motives pure. Everyone is not good at everything, and we all have areas in which we need to grow. We're disciples, so my prayer is I always approach people w/ humility and kindness. All one can do is give people information. Whether the information is impactful and outcome determinative is up to that individual.
Doesn't matter what their perspective is.

From OUR perspective they are being quite insulting.

Mayhaps Christians should move prostylization into the realms of allegory, like stoning people to death. People might like Christianity a bit more.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:31 PM
 
39 posts, read 30,153 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
Anything that is done with love is right with God. The only reason divorce is so hard is because the parties fell out of love. It doesn't matter to God if you're gay, straight, a virgin, divorced or married. What matters to God is Love.
I would agree that how we live does not effect God. But if we live in sin and do not repent then we will get back to God via the wide road.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,878 posts, read 18,318,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teejuris View Post
Sanspeur and AxisMundi:I selectively and intentionally place the word "true" before Christianity to clarify there are many people that wear Christianity as a title or label, but denounce the Bible and/or Christian tenets. In the Bible, this is called apostasy. So, AxisMundi, this addresses the thousands of "Christian" sects in this world to which you frequently refer. Apparently, you didn't understand this highlight. So, hopefully, this spiel rectifies the "true Christian" ambiguity. In short, everyone that says, "Lord, Lord" is not going to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Further, if unbelievers/agnostics/atheists read my posts and see hatred, not love, that's expected. One of the conditions of the perilous times in which we live the Bible speaks of is that love will be viewed as/considered hate, and vice versa. So, because we're not of the same spirit, and we don't share the same beliefs, we're not on one accord, and will inevitably see things differently. Because we don't serve the same God, we can't touch and agree. It's pre-ordained, pre-determined and pre-destined to be that way. Remember: Christians can/will never love the devil, and vice versa. God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. It's not about judging. Unsaved people/unbelievers/atheists/agnostics often accuse Christians of judging whenever we discuss anything in the Bible. Another popular "lack of understanding" example. My recommendation: Learn the definition of judging. God is the judge. Discussing the Word does not translate into personally condemning people in/for his/her sins. Accusing us of judging is not going to stop us from ministering God's Word, or make us ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Honestly, you guys are being great representatives of your beliefs, and I, mine. You should be proud of yourselves. As a result of our differences and the fact that you guys are pretty much anti-Christian everything, there won't be many issues on which we agree. I will continue to love God, and choose life no matter what.
You have me wrong here. I am not anti Christian everything. Actually I don't discriminate, but am anti anything any religion does that effects people in a negative way. For instance the anti gay stance taken by many of faith. I am also against the programming that religions do to children at a very young age...I am against people who rely on prayer to cure a child rather than take advantage medical science. How many have died because of this?

I abhor being told that all moral standards come from belief, and that without that belief I am a bad person who just lives to satisfy my carnal urges. Go ahead and believe that, but don't tell me what I am or am not.

I know many Christians, some that I love and respect, but they never do these things, nor do they condemn me to hell...They respect my beliefs and I return the favor.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:51 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,190,622 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You have me wrong here. I am not anti Christian everything. Actually I don't discriminate, but am anti anything any religion does that effects people in a negative way. For instance the anti gay stance taken by many of faith. I am also against the programming that religions do to children at a very young age...I am against people who rely on prayer to cure a child rather than take advantage medical science. How many have died because of this?

I abhor being told that all moral standards come from belief, and that without that belief I am a bad person who just lives to satisfy my carnal urges. Go ahead and believe that, but don't tell me what I am or am not.

I know many Christians, some that I love and respect, but they never do these things, nor do they condemn me to hell...They respect my beliefs and I return the favor.
Indeed, most don't realize that we REACT to how we are treated.
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Old 08-24-2009, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,040 posts, read 6,666,794 times
Reputation: 6494
Quote:
Originally Posted by teejuris View Post
ptsum: In defense of the Christians you've encountered that tried to convert you, maybe you can look at them and/or judge their actions from this perspective: Christians believe unsaved people/unbelievers/atheists/agnostics will go to hell IF they don't become saved-Confessing w/ your mouth the Lord Jesus and believing in your heart God rose Jesus from the dead after the crucifixion. Hence, it is out of caring and concern Christians attempt to convert as many unsaved people as possible, understanding we're all God's creation, but we're not all God's children. Maybe some of their methodology is wrong, or not as effective, however, their hearts and motives pure. Everyone is not good at everything, and we all have areas in which we need to grow. We're disciples, so my prayer is I always approach people w/ humility and kindness. All one can do is give people information. Whether the information is impactful and outcome determinative is up to that individual.
You see, you and I can have a discussion about religion because of the simple fact that you know that I'm not going to convert to your Christianity of which I have already stated and I don't see you going about condemning me because I won't, so I can respect you for that, but I wonder, can you respect me for the fact that I do not want to and that I have my own belief that is not the same as yours. I have no problem with people of different religions and beliefs or non-beliefs as long as they understand that I am not going to be converted. I can respect all and all I ask is to be respected in return, this is all that anyone of us wishes to have done. Can Christianity do that, respect others' belief?
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:45 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,356 posts, read 3,435,015 times
Reputation: 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
Can Christianity do that, respect others' belief?

Observe the way they treat Mormons ("one prophet too many!") or Catholics, ("not real Christians") or any other Christian group that doesn't happen to be their own. I think you'll discover this sad fact:

Christians don't even respect other Christian beliefs - so why would they respect a non-Christians?
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:31 PM
 
Location: 48205
382 posts, read 421,080 times
Reputation: 313
ptsum: Christians respect others' beliefs all the time. I have friends of other religions. We understand we don't share the same beliefs. And, yes, there are times we get into deep discussions about our religious beliefs. We typically agree to disagree. I still think a lot of non-Christians are confused about the meaning of the word "condem". Christians discussing their beliefs is NOT condemnation. For example, If I tell you you're going to Hell, I'm condemning/judging you. However, if I tell you Christians believe in Heaven and Hell, and if a person doesn't receive salvation, he/she is going to Hell, that's not judging; that's relaying our beliefs/imparting the Word. Once, we've given a person the Word, our obligation is complete. If a person turns a deaf ear, we can then walk away. So, I'm not going to beat you on top of the head! Again, it's all about choices.
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,040 posts, read 6,666,794 times
Reputation: 6494
Quote:
Originally Posted by teejuris View Post
ptsum: Christians respect others' beliefs all the time. I have friends of other religions. We understand we don't share the same beliefs. And, yes, there are times we get into deep discussions about our religious beliefs. We typically agree to disagree. I still think a lot of non-Christians are confused about the meaning of the word "condem". Christians discussing their beliefs is NOT condemnation. For example, If I tell you you're going to Hell, I'm condemning/judging you. However, if I tell you Christians believe in Heaven and Hell, and if a person doesn't receive salvation, he/she is going to Hell, that's not judging; that's relaying our beliefs/imparting the Word. Once, we've given a person the Word, our obligation is complete. If a person turns a deaf ear, we can then walk away. So, I'm not going to beat you on top of the head! Again, it's all about choices.
Unfortunately, it has been my experience that all Christians do not feel that way about respecting others' beliefs, you do realize that you are one among many who do not feel that way and I do appreciate the fact that you don't go around condemning people because they don't believe the way you do. I have come across many Christians in my lifetime that when I explained to them that I am not a Christian and that I do not believe the way they do, the first thing they want to do is to condemn me and tell me that my soul or spirit is going to hell, now it's one thing to believe that, it's another thing to come right out and tell a person that and this has been the experience that I have had with most Christians, they cannot accept the fact or even respect it, which I would imagine is why a lot of people have this great dislike for Christianity and certain Christians in particular. As I said earlier I can respect all religions and learn about them but I don't necessarily have to believe in them, I find them interesting.
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