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Old 08-12-2009, 04:03 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
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Why is it impossible to make a more equivalent form of civil union?
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Why is it impossible to make a more equivalent form of civil union?
It's not, it's the narrow minded bigoted individuals who are trying to impose their religious laws on everybody and don't realize that not everybody subscribes to their particular belief, they fail to realize that we are a free society in this country, governed by laws, not by religions.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Why is it impossible to make a more equivalent form of civil union?
Why go through all the trouble of calling something a civil union when it's easier just to call it what it is - a marriage?

Seperate but equal didn't work in the days of segregation. Doesn't fly today, either. Not in any progressive, enlightened civilisation based on democracy and freedom rather than religion and superstition.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:40 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,222,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Why is it impossible to make a more equivalent form of civil union?
The previous two posters answered your question quite elequently and concisely.

"Civil Unions", unless "marriage" is done away with entirely, is a clear case of segrigation, pure and simple.

With the passage of Civil Rights Laws, this Nation finally laid aside the idea of a second-class citizen.

Today, however, such an ugly, reprehensible ideal has been ressurected by the religious right (sic), who are attempting to apply that concept to the GLBT community,a nd all in the name of their religion.

Marriage is a Civil Right in this Nation, and there is no valid, secular reason to exclude a recognized, protected minority from that g'ment institution.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:30 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
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Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
The previous two posters answered your question quite elequently and concisely.
Not really, they just pouted or shouted. I'm used to both, but I don't find either method eloquent.

Sex and race are clearly different. The idea that any acknowledgement of sexual difference is the same as Jim Crow is close to laughable. Many nontheist arguments on this board are just based in being mad at Christianity and being paranoid about theocracy, which is a person's right but says nothing about reality. It certainly doesn't say why perfectly secular societies never had SSM or still don't.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:30 PM
 
Location: OKC
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I had no idea that the marriage to my wife was anything other than a civil union, given that neither of us believe in a God.

(By the way, I went on my first date with my wife when we were both sophomores in high school. That was in 1985. So the lack of a Christian God in our marriage hasn't seemed to hurt it at all.)
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:37 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,356 posts, read 3,479,166 times
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Why is it impossible to make a more equivalent form of civil union?



That is really a question for you Christians, isn't it?

It's not the atheist or gay folks that are preventing that.

We should allow anyone that want's a civil union to have one, and if you can find a priest to ordain in in some church, you can call it a marriage if that's important to you. But the legal status should just be "civil union".

But that is impossible because Christian zealots demand that the Government consistently punish gay people just for being gay. Most christians are not just against homosexuality, they are against homosexuals. They are at war with them, and they don't want to provide them any comfort, or allow them any happiness.

It's bigotry.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:52 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,222,770 times
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Not really, they just pouted or shouted. I'm used to both, but I don't find either method eloquent.

Sex and race are clearly different. The idea that any acknowledgement of sexual difference is the same as Jim Crow is close to laughable. Many nontheist arguments on this board are just based in being mad at Christianity and being paranoid about theocracy, which is a person's right but says nothing about reality. It certainly doesn't say why perfectly secular societies never had SSM or still don't.
Firstly, I am certainly no a "nonthiest", and if you think that theocracy is not an ongoing concern in this nation, you'd might want to open your eyes.

Race is inherent, it cannot be changed, nor is it a choice.

Sexual orientation is inherent, it cannot be changed, nor is it a choice.

Race has been an issue where the discrimination directed towards a minority is concerned.

Sexual orientation has been an issue where the discrimination directed towards a minority is concerned.

I see no difference between the two.

Also, there are no "perfectly secular societies". Turkey comes close, certainly, but is nearly completely Muslim in it's population. However, those Nations that have laid aside discrimination against homosexuals include belgium, Canada, Netherlands, Norway, South Africa, Spain and Sweden, so your comment is, indeed, inaccurate.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:32 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
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I know you're a pantheist, but I thought maybe that could count under the umbrella term "nontheist." I couldn't think of a more blanket term and simply "non-Abrahamic" wouldn't work as you've never indicated you're of any religion or established theological system.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:48 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,222,770 times
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I know you're a pantheist, but I thought maybe that could count under the umbrella term "nontheist." I couldn't think of a more blanket term and simply "non-Abrahamic" wouldn't work as you've never indicated you're of any religion or established theological system.
non-Abrahamic Theist covers all non-Abrahamic and non-Dharmic religions and believe systems that contain some form of Deity.
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