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Unread 08-16-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Midwest
19,169 posts, read 7,129,649 times
Reputation: 4076
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
True Bud. Because God exists, miracles are possible. In fact, hes already performed the greatest miracle ever : Bringing our Universe into existence out of nothing . Things like turning a Snake into a stick then back into a snake again , or water into wine, or walking on water, etc... are minor pastimes compared to the Big miracle of Creation . A personal theistic Creator who is all powerful does occassionally intervene in history to do miracles ---- every true Christian whos had a real life changing experience thru Christ is no less of a miracle . There are an enormous amount of modern day miracles besides ... Val Thomas for instance, who was totally dead for 17 hours (flat lined on the hospital screen) and in fact so dead that rigor mortis had set in on her feet....instantly came back to life again and without any lasting effects. Do a google under Val Thomas . Her experience is confirmed by Doctors and a Nurse who were present at the time. Our God is an awesome God and is worthy of our complete trust , hope, and praise --- it is the prideful and foolish who would rather continue to make up excuses for not moving in his direction. Dont do that because it wont be worth it in the final analysis.
I read the exaggeration of the account of Val Thomas. I have a few concerns with this story.

1) You cannot put someone on a ventilator who is "flat lined on the hospital screen". This would mean no heart is beating. No doctor in the world would put a patient on a ventilator until a heart beat has been established.

2) This woman was saved by medical intervention including heroic efforts such as a ventilator, inducing hypothermia to preserve mental function, and most likely potent drugs.

3) Rigor mortis never set in. What is described is not rigor mortis.
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Unread 08-16-2009, 12:43 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 1,668,575 times
Reputation: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Where is that miracle-working God today? Could He have disappeared with the advent of science and human reason?
No, he hasnt gone anywhere ! In fact, it is modern science which is PROVING God exists and personally fashioned this Cosmos all for our existence. Even agnostic Prof. Robert Jastrow , Founder of the Goddard Institute at NASA writes in his book called God and the Astronomers, that, all of science is leading to one conclusion : God created the Heavens and the Earth . Nobel prize winning Cosmologists like Dr. ALan Sandage have left the charade of atheism for Theism declaring :' The Universe is just so fine tuned that there MUST be some intelligent organizing Principle / Person behind it' . You may be interested to know that the Old Testament of the Bible lists at least 25 specific scientific processes written down some 2-4,000 years ago which modern science has finally gotton around to confirming to be absolutely true . Did you know that ALL of our Modern Science Founders were devoted Men of God and the Bible ?

So please dont try to seperate God or the Bible from Modern Science --- as the Leader of the Human Genome Project said :' Science and the Bible are completely compatible' . Conversely, atheisms psuedo-science of accidental /unpurposed Pond Scum becoming a 206 bone human being having 60 major anatomical systems all working together plus hundreds of other supporting sub systems .... is about as far away from good reasoning and real science as it comes ! It is nothing but a desperate masquerade of science which makes ones apriori-philosophical bias to remain 'an atheist' at all costs, palatable (and of willful self deciet) .

If you truly want to see the absurd faith an atheist has to have to really be one, then obtain the best selling book from www.impactapologetics.com called "I Dont Have Enough Faith to be An Atheist" . It will leave you understanding that No One is a true 'atheist' . Regards.
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Unread 08-16-2009, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Midwest
19,169 posts, read 7,129,649 times
Reputation: 4076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
I think before He sent Himself to us in His son Jesus (who showed us God in the flesh) He may have had to do some really amazing things to get our attention..
This is more true today than ever. So why isn't God doing some really amazing things today to get our attention?
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Unread 08-16-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Midwest
19,169 posts, read 7,129,649 times
Reputation: 4076
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
No, he hasnt gone anywhere ! In fact, it is modern science which is PROVING God exists and personally fashioned this Cosmos all for our existence. Even agnostic Prof. Robert Jastrow , Founder of the Goddard Institute at NASA writes in his book called God and the Astronomers, that, all of science is leading to one conclusion : God created the Heavens and the Earth . Nobel prize winning Cosmologists like Dr. ALan Sandage have left the charade of atheism for Theism declaring :' The Universe is just so fine tuned that there MUST be some intelligent organizing Principle / Person behind it' . You may be interested to know that the Old Testament of the Bible lists at least 25 specific scientific processes written down some 2-4,000 years ago which modern science has finally gotton around to confirming to be absolutely true . Did you know that ALL of our Modern Science Founders were devoted Men of God and the Bible ?

So please dont try to seperate God or the Bible from Modern Science --- as the Leader of the Human Genome Project said :' Science and the Bible are completely compatible' . Conversely, atheisms psuedo-science of accidental /unpurposed Pond Scum becoming a 206 bone human being having 60 major anatomical systems all working together plus hundreds of other supporting sub systems .... is about as far away from good reasoning and real science as it comes ! It is nothing but a desperate masquerade of science which makes ones apriori-philosophical bias to remain 'an atheist' at all costs, palatable (and of willful self deciet) .

If you truly want to see the absurd faith an atheist has to have to really be one, then obtain the best selling book from www.impactapologetics.com called "I Dont Have Enough Faith to be An Atheist" . It will leave you understanding that No One is a true 'atheist' . Regards.
I would be very interested in the 25 specific scientific processes written down in the OT! Would you provide them to me or at least a link about them? Thanks in advance.
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Unread 08-16-2009, 12:49 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 1,668,575 times
Reputation: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
I read the exaggeration of the account of Val Thomas. I have a few concerns with this story.

1) You cannot put someone on a ventilator who is "flat lined on the hospital screen". This would mean no heart is beating. No doctor in the world would put a patient on a ventilator until a heart beat has been established.

2) This woman was saved by medical intervention including heroic efforts such as a ventilator, inducing hypothermia to preserve mental function, and most likely potent drugs.

3) Rigor mortis never set in. What is described is not rigor mortis.
1. If you really and carefully read the report, you would have learned that Val Thomas was placed on a respirator so her organs could be preserved for donation.

2. This woman was completely and thoroughly DEAD , flat lined, for 17 hours . No mechanical equipment brought this Lady back to life ; she spontaneously started speaking to the Nurse who was disconnecting the Respirator after being dead for many hours ...to the Nurses and Doctors utter amazement.

3. Rigor Mortis is hardening/deformation of the external skin , muscles, and tendons. She had these things set in .

Is there some personal reason why you dont want God to exist ; would there be ramifications to your life if he did ? thank you.

Last edited by RVlover; 08-16-2009 at 12:51 PM.. Reason: added
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Unread 08-16-2009, 12:57 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 2,843,773 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
1. If you really and carefully read the report, you would have learned that Val Thomas was placed on a respirator so her organs could be preserved for donation.

2. This woman was completely and thoroughly DEAD , flat lined, for 17 hours . No mechanical equipment brought this Lady back to life ; she spontaneously started speaking to the Nurse who was disconnecting the Respirator after being dead for many hours ...to the Nurses and Doctors utter amazement.

3. Rigor Mortis is hardening/deformation of the external skin , muscles, and tendons. She had these things set in .

Is there some personal reason why you dont want God to exist ; would there be ramifications to your life if he did ? thank you.
If you carefully read the report, you will see that there are no comments made by actual hospital staff.

No doctor claimed she was "dead for 17 hours".

No doctor said she was in "rigor mortise".

No hospital staff are directly quoted as saying they were "amazed".

Is there some personal reason bible-thumpers have to lie and/or indulge in self-delusion to substantiate their religion?
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Unread 08-16-2009, 12:59 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 2,843,773 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
No, he hasnt gone anywhere ! In fact, it is modern science which is PROVING God exists and personally fashioned this Cosmos all for our existence. Even agnostic Prof. Robert Jastrow , Founder of the Goddard Institute at NASA writes in his book called God and the Astronomers, that, all of science is leading to one conclusion : God created the Heavens and the Earth . Nobel prize winning Cosmologists like Dr. ALan Sandage have left the charade of atheism for Theism declaring :' The Universe is just so fine tuned that there MUST be some intelligent organizing Principle / Person behind it' . You may be interested to know that the Old Testament of the Bible lists at least 25 specific scientific processes written down some 2-4,000 years ago which modern science has finally gotton around to confirming to be absolutely true . Did you know that ALL of our Modern Science Founders were devoted Men of God and the Bible ?

So please dont try to seperate God or the Bible from Modern Science --- as the Leader of the Human Genome Project said :' Science and the Bible are completely compatible' . Conversely, atheisms psuedo-science of accidental /unpurposed Pond Scum becoming a 206 bone human being having 60 major anatomical systems all working together plus hundreds of other supporting sub systems .... is about as far away from good reasoning and real science as it comes ! It is nothing but a desperate masquerade of science which makes ones apriori-philosophical bias to remain 'an atheist' at all costs, palatable (and of willful self deciet) .

If you truly want to see the absurd faith an atheist has to have to really be one, then obtain the best selling book from www.impactapologetics.com called "I Dont Have Enough Faith to be An Atheist" . It will leave you understanding that No One is a true 'atheist' . Regards.
The unfounded opinions of men, opinions unsupported by evidence or accepted by their peers, is not "science".

Science disproves your Holy Babble time and time again.
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Unread 08-16-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Midwest
19,169 posts, read 7,129,649 times
Reputation: 4076
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
1. If you really and carefully read the report, you would have learned that Val Thomas was placed on a respirator so her organs could be preserved for donation.

2. This woman was completely and thoroughly DEAD , flat lined, for 17 hours . No mechanical equipment brought this Lady back to life ; she spontaneously started speaking to the Nurse who was disconnecting the Respirator after being dead for many hours ...to the Nurses and Doctors utter amazement.

3. Rigor Mortis is hardening/deformation of the external skin , muscles, and tendons. She had these things set in .

Is there some personal reason why you dont want God to exist ; would there be ramification to your life if he did ?
What was "flat lined" the heart or the brain waves?

Rigor Mortis is stiffening of the muscles only, not skin.

As far as your question about whether I have a personal reason that I don't want God to exist, I will answer in this way:

If there is a God, we will find Him/her through truth. To maintain lies or hang on to ignorance in order to make a God real, speaks for that God.
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Unread 08-16-2009, 01:05 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 1,668,575 times
Reputation: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
I would be very interested in the 25 specific scientific processes written down in the OT! Would you provide them to me or at least a link about them? Thanks in advance.
Eternal Productions - 101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge
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Unread 08-16-2009, 01:08 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 5,833,810 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiusX View Post
Do Christians really believe that snakes can talk, people can fly, walk on water, separate the Red Sea with a stick, etc... I might as well start believing in Harry Potter.
Well science tells us that the universe was once so small, you could put it in you shirt pocket. Somehow all of a sudden, a talking snake seems much more believable. The fact is, the Bible has a lot of historical evidence that confirms it's reality. It would require a lot more faith to believe ideas that are coming from science, then the stories coming from the Bible. Especially when we have a lot of historical evidence that already confirms much of the Bible.
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