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Jesus Christ is the "only begotten Son" of God on this planet ever. God is in Jesus Christ. So when Jesus talks about mortal humans coming to God as in the "I am the Way" I would think that is a clear of a message as it gets. No one goes to the Father unless they go through the Son. God sent Christ to us so that we could believe that Jesus Christ was truly God in the flesh. So what makes you think God would listen to you directly if you couldn't listen to him when He was in the flesh? That is why Jesus Christ said; I am the Way, because God was speaking. So if you want to go to the Father, you must go through the Son. And, when you go through the Son, you follow His teachings.
Regarding what I highlighted, I couldn't listen to Him when He was in the flesh because I wasn't there. Or are you referring to those who were?
Now tell me, what is the point of the Lord's Prayer, the Our Father? Was God not listening all that time I said it? What about the entire Catholic mass that I attended for so many years where we all spoke to God and asked for His forgiveness and His blessings, and praised Him? Yes, there were references to "asking this through Jesus Christ." But we also addressed God directly. Are you saying He wasn't listening then either?
Really, I'm not trying to be difficult, but when someone tells me I cannot speak to God directly, I find even more reason to doubt.
Regarding what I highlighted, I couldn't listen to Him when He was in the flesh because I wasn't there. Or are you referring to those who were?
Now tell me, what is the point of the Lord's Prayer, the Our Father? Was God not listening all that time I said it? What about the entire Catholic mass that I attended for so many years where we all spoke to God and asked for His forgiveness and His blessings, and praised Him? Yes, there were references to "asking this through Jesus Christ." But we also addressed God directly. Are you saying He wasn't listening then either?
Really, I'm not trying to be difficult, but when someone tells me I cannot speak to God directly, I find even more reason to doubt.
Do not doubt! Who taught us to say the Lords Prayer? Jesus did. Today in the Church there is more emphasis on Jesus Christ. Because God kept his word; in that His Son has returned. God wants us to know that it was He in the flesh. The teacher, Jesus Christ is and always will be the Warrior for the Truth.
God always listens, He just wants us to except Him in Jesus Christ as our salvation. That is why Jesus says; I am the Way. I am the Light of this World. And if it is God's wishes that we except Christ as our Saviour then why not listen to him? Christ teachings have been handed down through generations upon generations, so yes through His teachings He is still with us. We don't know God, no one has ever touched His hand, but Jesus Christ. We know Christ. So pray to Jesus Christ and when you pray to Jesus Christ, you are speaking to the Father.
Have a great day. And may you live in Christ to know the Father.
Regarding what I highlighted, I couldn't listen to Him when He was in the flesh because I wasn't there. Or are you referring to those who were?
Now tell me, what is the point of the Lord's Prayer, the Our Father? Was God not listening all that time I said it? What about the entire Catholic mass that I attended for so many years where we all spoke to God and asked for His forgiveness and His blessings, and praised Him? Yes, there were references to "asking this through Jesus Christ." But we also addressed God directly. Are you saying He wasn't listening then either?
Really, I'm not trying to be difficult, but when someone tells me I cannot speak to God directly, I find even more reason to doubt.
It's rather hard for me to stick my nose in here without feeling that I'm trying to coax you down the path of unbelief. but Lionpainter's "Do not doubt!" would certainly rile me if I was was trying to feel my way to what I considered made sense as far as religion goes.
IF there is a god and if that god is a sort of personal god and has any links with the abrahamic religion, I can't believe that it would be so Bible-bounds and bloody - minded as to say 'You can only get to me through the Church'. The only 'personal' god that makes sense to me is one that wants everyone, on all faiths or none, to come to him, her or It by whatever means it takes.
Quoting chunks of the Bible in order to get you back into the religious fold..I am willing to believe that they do this because they really fear for your salvation. But, I don't know, the elaborate salvation from sin through redeeming blood activated by the catalyst of signing up to a particuler set of beliefs. It doesn't make any sense to me and I should think it doesn't make sense to you.
I suppose I'd have to say that you have to commune with whatever is 'god' and try to get some input. Let's face it, a god could hardly fail to respond with the right stuff at this rather critical stage. I know that might push you back into the bosom of the pope, but I'm trying to make some helpful suggestions, not make a deconvert.
Yet I think that, if my beliefs are right, communing with whatever is 'god' for you, if you are truly trying to find a reasonable and rational way, you cannot fail to find the right and only anwer in the end.
I have family who are religious and I try to tolerate them without too much trouble, but when intelligent people follow other intelligent people just because they want to find some hope of life after death, my shoulders drop with a big, big sigh.
Basically as far as I can see, everyone who believes in an orthodox religion cannot possibly have though deeply about the issues and cannot have rationalised it all. If they did, wouldn't they come to the conclusion that there cannot possibly be only one correct religion which has it right? No-one has any proof that what they are being indoctrinated and 'taught' has any basis whatsoever.
There is more proof of UFOs and aliens than there is of God. If you dont believe me on this one, then maybe you can tell me how many people have seen 'God', and how many people have seen 'aliens'. Some have even been abducted to space ships and brought back again, however, not many people have come back from heaven.
The only 'personal' god that makes sense to me is one that wants everyone, on all faiths or none, to come to him, her or It by whatever means it takes.
bingo. gold.
that right there is the simple beauitful truth of relationship with god.
we are ALL the beloved children of a loving Creator, ALL of us, all over this planet, and we ALL share the same loving Creator.
Pass the parmigiano, and hold the prayers, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
bingo. gold.
that right there is the simple beauitful truth of relationship with god.
we are ALL the beloved children of a loving Creator, ALL of us, all over this planet, and we ALL share the same loving Creator.
Well.... thanks so much for your personal opinion. which cetainly doesn'r mean it's the truht.
Why is it that some people need a godly father figure in their life just to "get along"?? I see that in all the Christians I know in my town. They simply cannot seem to get along without seeking their god's holy guidance.
Following my careful, thoughtful and lengthy personal assessment of religion, (and consequent migration to atheism, with nary a single godly lightning bolt aimed at me. Or maybe his aim, given his old age and failing eyesight, is just not what it was in biblical times...) I realized that there simply is no god.
I have absolutely no need of, or desire for, a godfather, and he seems to have pretty much ignored me as well. A non-existant deity would, predictably, behave thus.
The Christians simply apply a vague & ambiguous set of pretty good biblical behavioral guidlines (...though by no means all of them good. Eat your kids? Kill thy neighbor? All babies are sinners! Yikes! Run! Run away!). They then assume that those answers they came to entirely of their own accord somehow came directly from god whispering in their ears. They go prancing about claiming to have "found" and "spoken to" god. How nice for their delusional viewpoint.
Imagine how much more gratifying and enabling and unencumbering it is to be able to accurately and dispassionately assess a given problematic situation, apply what you have already learned in your life, apply those lessons in ethics, maturity and responsibility, couple it with some intellectual honesty, and take charge. On your own.
Again: On Your Own!
It's been proven to work for hundreds of thousands of millions of us, with great reliability, and our world has not come crashing down. Odd huh?
(Though I will admit to asking the FSM for advice from time to time. Usually while eating His essence. And the meatballs twitch on my plate, and the sauce heats up all by itself, and I see the light! Amen! And damn the Fettuciniists; may they all have heart attacks!)
Regarding what I highlighted, I couldn't listen to Him when He was in the flesh because I wasn't there. Or are you referring to those who were?
Now tell me, what is the point of the Lord's Prayer, the Our Father? Was God not listening all that time I said it? What about the entire Catholic mass that I attended for so many years where we all spoke to God and asked for His forgiveness and His blessings, and praised Him? Yes, there were references to "asking this through Jesus Christ." But we also addressed God directly. Are you saying He wasn't listening then either?
Really, I'm not trying to be difficult, but when someone tells me I cannot speak to God directly, I find even more reason to doubt.
You don't need a mediator between you and God. He hears you. Jesus was sent here to proclaim the rebestoal of Divine Love and made it available to all who would ask. Seems like you are doing that to me.
God is real to me because I have asked Him directly for His love and He gave it to me. All I had to do was ask. I have never prayed in Jesus name nor to Jesus. Jesus is a big brother, teacher and guide to me. He showed the way to a higher conscienceness.
I read a book this past weekend from a very reputable author who did research on art history while she was working on her masters. During that time, she did some research on the history of christianity, mainly Jesus. Turns out He was actually a Mystic and the church denied the term and it became christianity. I kinda knew that already but she just confirmed it.
The main thing is, if you want to go directly to God and not through Jesus, God will hear you. Jesus will sit idly by and praise you for returning to God.
Just be the Love you are and all else will fall into place.
It's rather hard for me to stick my nose in here without feeling that I'm trying to coax you down the path of unbelief. but Lionpainter's "Do not doubt!" would certainly rile me if I was was trying to feel my way to what I considered made sense as far as religion goes.
IF there is a god and if that god is a sort of personal god and has any links with the abrahamic religion, I can't believe that it would be so Bible-bounds and bloody - minded as to say 'You can only get to me through the Church'. The only 'personal' god that makes sense to me is one that wants everyone, on all faiths or none, to come to him, her or It by whatever means it takes.
Quoting chunks of the Bible in order to get you back into the religious fold..I am willing to believe that they do this because they really fear for your salvation. But, I don't know, the elaborate salvation from sin through redeeming blood activated by the catalyst of signing up to a particuler set of beliefs. It doesn't make any sense to me and I should think it doesn't make sense to you.
I suppose I'd have to say that you have to commune with whatever is 'god' and try to get some input. Let's face it, a god could hardly fail to respond with the right stuff at this rather critical stage. I know that might push you back into the bosom of the pope, but I'm trying to make some helpful suggestions, not make a deconvert.
Yet I think that, if my beliefs are right, communing with whatever is 'god' for you, if you are truly trying to find a reasonable and rational way, you cannot fail to find the right and only anwer in the end.
Wish you well in your search.
Thank you. I appreciate Lion's clarification (thank you, Lion) as well. I'm still not comfortable with it, but I appreciate the communication.
We, as humans, are flawed. There are so many different ways to worship and so many people playing God that I simply don't trust any mortal with my spirituality. Call it conscience, the Holy Spirit, common sense; I feel more and more with every passing day that the answer really is within me. Stripping myself of all the outside expectations and influences is placing me more in tune with and heightening my awareness of what I should be doing.
I believe in God, period. Maybe it is better said that I believe there is a god or a creator. That really is the bottom line, that I have my faith. I don't believe the only way to communicate with him is in church, once a week for an hour or so when my "mission" doesn't begin and end while I am in church, once a week, for an hour or so. My purpose here is an every day endeavour. My desire to help others and make the most of the life I was given is an every day pursuit. I just hope my friend can understand this.
I wanted to mention this. In the email I quoted her from, she also said she spent two hours writing to me with several passages from the bible when her computer locked up and she lost it. She took it to mean that God didn't think I was prepared to receive him yet. It kinda miffed me, because I specifically asked her to share with me how she found God and what parts of the bible were significant to her finding Him. She denied me, because God denied me? I was pretty taken aback. Doesn't make sense when the bible is supposed to be part of the path to God.
Thank you. I appreciate Lion's clarification (thank you, Lion) as well. I'm still not comfortable with it, but I appreciate the communication.
We, as humans, are flawed. There are so many different ways to worship and so many people playing God that I simply don't trust any mortal with my spirituality. Call it conscience, the Holy Spirit, common sense; I feel more and more with every passing day that the answer really is within me. Stripping myself of all the outside expectations and influences is placing me more in tune with and heightening my awareness of what I should be doing.
I believe in God, period. Maybe it is better said that I believe there is a god or a creator. That really is the bottom line, that I have my faith. I don't believe the only way to communicate with him is in church, once a week for an hour or so when my "mission" doesn't begin and end while I am in church, once a week, for an hour or so. My purpose here is an every day endeavour. My desire to help others and make the most of the life I was given is an every day pursuit. I just hope my friend can understand this.
I wanted to mention this. In the email I quoted her from, she also said she spent two hours writing to me with several passages from the bible when her computer locked up and she lost it. She took it to mean that God didn't think I was prepared to receive him yet. It kinda miffed me, because I specifically asked her to share with me how she found God and what parts of the bible were significant to her finding Him. She denied me, because God denied me? I was pretty taken aback. Doesn't make sense when the bible is supposed to be part of the path to God.
Maybe her computer locked up because God knew you were on the right path and that what you are doing is ok with Him.
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Pass the parmigiano, and hold the prayers, please.
