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Old 09-18-2009, 12:44 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,191,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger2 View Post
I think the biblical explanation of modern apostate divided 'christianity of sinners' is remarkably accurate and thus rather telling ... a strong evidence for God in fact that the demonstration of divided religion proves the apostasy logically that was prophesied millenia ago.
Fail on at least two counts I can see.

Circular Argument Fallacies do not evidence or proof make.

Christianity began fragmenting almost right away.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,878 posts, read 18,325,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger2 View Post
I think the biblical explanation of modern apostate divided 'christianity of sinners' is remarkably accurate and thus rather telling ... a strong evidence for God in fact that the demonstration of divided religion proves the apostasy logically that was prophesied millenia ago.
Ridiculous....Religion has always been fragmented ever since mankind invented it. Every primitive tribe had their own beliefs
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 2,060,820 times
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I am amused at those who insist to me that I prove something to them, I will do no such thing, I don't care that they do not believe. If God wants someone to believe in him, then I think he is very capable of doing something to their minds, which I could surely not do. Let God deal with them, is my view. I am not inclinded to un-seduce a mind, my mind is seduced like everyonelses, and I have no ego that needs to be rubbed by going on a crusade to convince people of God. I don't care what people believe, and I know what its like to have a mind which is seduced. Everytime in my life that I did wrong, no human could have stopped me, I did what I was going to do. Every belief I have had, no human could change my mind, I believed what I wanted to believe. And I give others that same respect, what you believe is your business.

How can one human, change the mind of another human who is seduced? Too many of us try to change others, and too many of us need change, but put the weight of that transfiguration on others. Even laws do not change the behavior and beliefs of others.

I don't need anyones help in understanding the bible, its clear to me. I just prove things to myself. This thing is just going to be between me and God, if I am ever to get to know him, I want no outside interference.

I looked at Luke 2:1-3, with intrest;" And it came to pass in those days that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed. And all went to be taxed, everyone into his own city." I found out that this tax was first made when Cyrenius was governor. This IS the reason WHY Mary and Joseph had to journey from Nazareth to Bethlehem, and there Jesus was born in fulfillment of the Prophecy uttered by Micah in 5:2, Luke 2:3-5. Thats why they were in Bethlehem.

Cyrenius ( or Quirinius) was twice the Governor of Syria, the first time when Christ was born, the second time at a later date I am not sure of. Egyptian Papyri supports Lukes record, indicating a census was taken every 14 years. The cycle of these enrollments shows the approximate date was 6-5 B.C., which I accept as the era of Christ birth. One Papyrus mentions " Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus Emperor" by name. The very poduim from which Augustus made his decree is still seen today in the old Roman Forum, I have pictures of it.

I don't need anybodys agreement to help me believe this, I am my own man, I believe it, I couldcareless who does not. I am convinced. That said , I want to go further into Post.

Peace.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,697,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
I looked at Luke 2:1-3, with intrest;" And it came to pass in those days that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed. And all went to be taxed, everyone into his own city." I found out that this tax was first made when Cyrenius was governor.
So that would make Jesus being born in 6CE then because that is when Quirinius was appointed governor of Syria...which contradicts Luke who says he was born when Herod was alive, so prior to 4BCE.

Quote:
Cyrenius ( or Quirinius) was twice the Governor of Syria, the first time when Christ was born......
That would make him the only governor in the whole of Roman history to have held the same office twice. You're clutching at straws mate! Quirinius was not qualified to hold the office of Governor until 6CE.

Quote:
Egyptian Papyri supports Lukes record, indicating a census was taken every 14 years. The cycle of these enrollments shows the approximate date was 6-5 B.C., which I accept as the era of Christ birth.
So you think Matthew was wrong?

Quote:
I don't need anybodys agreement to help me believe this, I am my own man, I believe it, I couldcareless who does not. I am convinced.
So you're quite happy to close your eyes and ears to recorded history and scream 'It's not true'?
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 2,060,820 times
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The seduction of the christian mind is normally rooted in " A Church", but not limited to that. So much of the seduction is perpetrated in the church, taught in the church and the powers that be then target the church, to begin its seduction. And I think the seduction began the moment Jesus left this earth. And this is why people cannot seem to make it on their own, the intense need for " Fellowship." But the growing numbers of people, people exposure to people, has largely contributed to the seduction of the christian mind. All their views are mixed together in a giant melting pot of confusion.

Often I wonder was it like this in Abrahams day. He traveled to a lot of strange countrys, I wonder what they did to avoid strange beliefs and weird customs. I wonder if they ran into many Atheist. I know they do go through the city of " Shechem", Gen.12:6-7. Did you know Archaeologist have found Shechem, unearthed a city that Abraham lived in. I tell you man, this stuff is amazing.

Peace.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:13 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,191,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
I am amused at those who insist to me that I prove something to them, I will do no such thing, I don't care that they do not believe...
And yet you CONTINUE to attempt to prove your sciptures accurate and infallable, until someone calls you on it to which you reply simply by running away in such statements as I have isolated from your long winded post above.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:29 AM
 
21 posts, read 15,553 times
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The new covenant states that God Himself will teach all under grace [Heb 8:10-11] and so they will not teach each other [they will have no need to at all] ... thus all those who truly follow Christ are promised all truth [John 16:13] from God, not from men ... thus there is ONE truth common to all the few [Matt 7:14] who truly folow Christ by giving up unlovingness ['sin', breaking of Christ's law as their lord of loving all men and loving God] ....
The scripture is very special indeed then in showing conclusively that most who call themselves 'christians' do not follow Christ at all, do not have one truth from God as promised by Jesus to all who follow him, do not stop sinning , do not have the foundation set by God, do not even agree let alone love each other and all others ...

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Thus Jesus states explicitly that he will leave behind all who are still sinners by time of his return :-

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Thus Jesus teachings are unique in this world in rejecting a billion and more people who pretend to follow him ... and indeed prophesying that the whole world bar a few saints would follow Satan in it's religion and state eventually [consider then the NWO proposal for world government] :-

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 13:3 ....all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Thus the scripture states how many will follow Christ in this world , just a few [Matt 7:14, Rev 7:3-8] that's about one in 80,000 people only, not the billion and more who claim to be christian yet disagree about what that means with themselves and with Christ!

[Countless many are saved later by turning to Christ after resurrection who die sinners in this world Matt 7:13, Rev 7:9-10, but that does not affect what happens now according to scripture, that most who think they are saved as sinners are under strong delusion ... this we can tell by reading the scripture they say they believe in and how it disagrees with their teachings from sinners, not saints, even teachings based upon mistranslations by sinners]
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Old 09-19-2009, 11:27 AM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,191,514 times
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More No True Scotsman Fallacies.
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Old 09-19-2009, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 2,060,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
And yet you CONTINUE to attempt to prove your sciptures accurate and infallable, until someone calls you on it to which you reply simply by running away in such statements as I have isolated from your long winded post above.

I prove them only to myself. Why are so many of you on this " Prove Kick", prove this to me, prove that to me. Your on it so much, that you think anyone who believes or shares what they believe, are trying to prove what they believe. I am a Black man, do I need to prove that? I am 54 years old, does that statement need to be proven? If I share my age, does that mean I am trying to prove it? I know I am Black, I know how old I am, I don't need to prove that to anyone! They can rail on and on as much as they like , if they do not believe me. I don't share my age and race in an effort to prove it to anyone.

So it is with my belief in God.

Peace.
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Old 09-19-2009, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,878 posts, read 18,325,979 times
Reputation: 9869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
I prove them only to myself. Why are so many of you on this " Prove Kick", prove this to me, prove that to me. Your on it so much, that you think anyone who believes or shares what they believe, are trying to prove what they believe. I am a Black man, do I need to prove that? I am 54 years old, does that statement need to be proven? If I share my age, does that mean I am trying to prove it? I know I am Black, I know how old I am, I don't need to prove that to anyone! They can rail on and on as much as they like , if they do not believe me. I don't share my age and race in an effort to prove it to anyone.

So it is with my belief in God.

Peace.
I don't understand why you bother to post on a forum if you do not want responses. Why not just start a personal journal? It would make more sense.
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