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Not only are geological processes very slow, the changes required in the thinking of some is similarly "glacial". But remember, it took these innocent folk most of their adolescent lives, well simmered in Churchy nonsense, to accept Christianity's subverted versions of most everything.
To now hope for a quick revision is to hope for the very unlikely. Despite the pure and simple facts laying right there under their nicely evolved sense of smell. Like our own "transitional" status!
In any case, soon enough, the ignorant fundamentalist mindset is rapidly on it's way out. Our education system, no matter how flawed, is still relentless in it's presentation of critical thinking skills to our children, and they will not tolerate abject silliness and purposeful lying or mis-quotes.
The end is nigh for vast, persistent illogic. and there will be no golden ship to rescue anyone!
What I find funny, Rifleman, is that our Creationist contributors might just as well insist that Comets are sign of God or volcanoes are signs of His dipleasure or that meteors are His missiles raining down on the evildoers and dismissing all the evidence to the contrary.
It is pretty tough if one of them denies absolutely everything that is presented as part of an argument. It was done by the flat earthists and, if they just carried out faked eperiments to prove what they already believed and denied all the contrary evidence as a fake or misinterpretation, it could be maintained surprisingly well, especially when it was linked with the Bible to make it look as though it was an Article of Faith.
The last believer died in the 70's (1) still claiming that all the photographs of a round earth from space were fakes to discredit him.
I guess one day there will be a last Creationist stoutly maintaining that all the evidence is an international conspiracy to discredit the Truth which only He has. And the Christians will be slamming atheists for the 'Lie' that any Christians really claimed that evolution wasn't fact.
(1) though I found a flat earth website that I'm still not sure isn't spoof.
Location: where the moss is taking over the villages
2,184 posts, read 5,550,483 times
Reputation: 1270
are we having fun yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
What I find funny, Rifleman, is that our Creationist contributors might just as well insist that Comets are sign of God or volcanoes are signs of His dipleasure or that meteors are His missiles raining down on the evildoers and dismissing all the evidence to the contrary.
It is pretty tough if one of them denies absolutely everything that is presented as part of an argument. It was done by the flat earthists and, if they just carried out faked eperiments to prove what they already believed and denied all the contrary evidence as a fake or misinterpretation, it could be maintained surprisingly well, especially when it was linked with the Bible to make it look as though it was an Article of Faith.
The last believer died in the 70's (1) still claiming that all the photographs of a round earth from space were fakes to discredit him.
I guess one day there will be a last Creationist stoutly maintaining that all the evidence is an international conspiracy to discredit the Truth which only He has. And the Christians will be slamming atheists for the 'Lie' that any Christians really claimed that evolution wasn't fact.
(1) though I found a flat earth website that I'm still not sure isn't spoof.
i can play this game!
what if...a "god" IS expressing displeasure with a volcano eruption...and a "god" IS raining down meteors... for whatever reason! who's to say "god" can't be fickle? or imperfect? seems like "god" misses all the time...
let's say... if "god" (we need to make this power plural to be omnipresent... omni anything)...if the "godS" made the world in an evolutionary fashion, then these spiritual forces would be scientifically sound...
in which case the christians, if any of this hypothesis could be proven, would have to live with the reality that there's more than one almighty to contend with...
they're always sayin' that it will come to light that their god did indeed make the world... that our understanding of science will come to prove it so...
and in the end, it doesn't change anything, about how or why or who made anything come to be. all's well that ends well, in my view. live a good life & be kind to the best of one's ability & then one may sleep soundly with a happy conscience.
true?
as for proof of evolution... no one has ever seen every fossilized stage of a human embryo, so of course how could every stage of historical change in a world of thousands of species be preserved?
we don't have the evolution of the doberman dog preserved (although it IS indisputably documented!) & you know those animals came from different breeds put together ... Doberman Pinscher Origin, History, and Standard
nature can't just hand out flower pressed versions of everything in every stage of life. it's just all chance what gets preserved. most of our planet's fossils probably turned into petrol.
...myself, i think in a hypothetical polytheistic ruled world there would be devas in charge of nature. perhaps they would be responsible for what's left for us to see & what's hidden or dissolved.
i believe love keeps the planets where they belong...well, it feels like love!
'What if' is very often a useful excercise because if one simply resists the claims of religion, cult or fringe - science, it means that (apart from laying one'self open to charges of 'closed -mindedness') one misses the struggling to produce any factual support, even without dismissing it as 'only a theory'.
And of course, that dobermans are a product of evolution only goes to discredit evolution.
"An 8-month-old baby bitten by a family dog was pronounced dead at Kings County Hospital (AFTER A VICIOUS ATTACK), the baby had been in his grandmother's care "when the family Doberman bit his head. Sources say the attack may have occurred after the baby touched the dog's paw."
Taken out of context Campbell - style this would prove that Dobermans (should that be Dobermen?) are vicious and dangerous and generally evil. I wouldn't give the source if I could help it but, if it was found
and pointed out that the site in fact argues that Dobermanns are not so bad as painted I'd argue campbell - style that what i posted was a quote wasn't it and whatever the views of the people running the site, it proves that Dobermans are dangerous.
Should you go into denial and ask what the hell that has to do with discrediting evolution, I'd point out that I'd already shown how Evilution' really IS 'evil' because it makes Dobermans' bite because they'd been bred to be evolved that way. And they must be as bad as they're painted as I challenge all you Evilutenists to try to paint a Dobermann and see how his 'Evilotion' reacts.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-14-2009 at 08:10 AM..
Location: where the moss is taking over the villages
2,184 posts, read 5,550,483 times
Reputation: 1270
oh mmmman
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
'What if' is very often a useful excercise because if one simply resists the claims of religion, cult or fringe - science, it means that (apart from laying one'self open to charges of 'closed -mindedness') one misses the struggling to produce any factual support, even without dismissing it as 'only a theory'.
And of course, that dobermans are a product of evolution only goes to discredit evolution.
"An 8-month-old baby bitten by a family dog was pronounced dead at Kings County Hospital (AFTER A VICIOUS ATTACK), the baby had been in his grandmother's care "when the family Doberman bit his head. Sources say the attack may have occurred after the baby touched the dog's paw."
Taken out of context Campbell - style this would prove that Dobermans (should that be Dobermen?) are vicious and dangerous and generally evil. I wouldn't give the source if I could help it but, if it was found
and pointed out that the site in fact argues that Dobermanns are not so bad as painted I'd argue campbell - style that what i posted was a quote wasn't it and whatever the views of the people running the site, it proves that Dobermans are dangerous.
Should you go into denial and ask what the hell that has to do with discrediting evolution, I'd point out that I'd already shown how Evilution' really IS 'evil' because it makes Dobermans' bite because they'd been bred to be evolved that way. And they must be as bad as they're painted as I challenge all you Evilutenists to try to paint a Dobermann and see how his 'Evilotion' reacts.
that turned ugly *sad smiley*
i thought i was clever with the doberman one. i knew you wouldn't like the deva fantasy but i thought i had a good one with the dog breeding.
Here you are, Dad! Proof that you're a "transitional!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahkate_m
that turned ugly *sad smiley*
i thought i was clever with the doberman one. i knew you wouldn't like the deva fantasy but i thought i had a good one with the dog breeding.
sigh. i never win!
it's a fun arm wrestle though!
you win!
kate
Hey kate; didn't you know? "Girls" never win when armwresting with boys!
Anyhow, not sure if you're serious. You seem to be a logical person, and not prone to going off into the illogical deep end. I'm pretty sure we're on the same team, yes?
BTW, I was just reading a recent article about genetic drift and genome variability within a cohort of so-called specific organisms. There's a lot of variation even within your own family, esp. if we go back, say, five or so generations. Are we then all different species? We can't rely just on that definition of the ability to successfully interbreed. The distinct and unique variations in chromosomal loci maps do not, in and of themselves, detach us from the greater flock, but technically, yes, your father was a "transitional", en-route from your grandfather and on to you. He may find that fascinating?
Statistically, we could (and perhaps should.. a great PhD thesis idea! I hereby claim it as mine, 09-14-09!) look at the differences between random genetic "noise" within a species' population, and which of those codons are on their way to a better home. You know; the ones with potential or actual "staying power" and the potential to change the "typical" hominid DNA genome. That would require a set of DNA genome maps going back, let's say, 5 or 10 or 20 generations, and then some careful watching as to which ones actually accomplish something, and which ones just fade away.
Additionally, there are several bits of ancient once-called "junk DNA" strings which we now think (or have found, in some cases...) to be activated by ancient triggers, old stimuli (like a charging polar bear, as I've experienced 3 times. Lucky lucky lucky...) Or diseases. Or climate changes. Or?
Some are, in fact, near-identical to ancient viral particle DNAs, and can then be statistically aged as to when they forced their way into the general human genome. That alone also dates us back hundreds of millions of years when we age-compare them to the latest, oft-mutated current viral strains.
The coupling of current DNA mapping and analysis methods, isotopic decay-rate aging (very accurate unless of course the ongoing and observable nuclear physics of the sun, as well as inside your local nuclear power plant aren't really real..), geological consistency and linking to separately aged physical events (volcanoes, meteors, etc.) and our ability to extract some DNA chunks from ice-suspended mamoths, reptiles, plants and sea life, has allowed for an entirenewlevel of accurate enlightenment in the field of "transitionals". Even "Missing Links", which have taken on a life of their own now!
Chistianity's lightweight theories and sputtering denials notwithstanding of course.
Location: where the moss is taking over the villages
2,184 posts, read 5,550,483 times
Reputation: 1270
all that scientific sweet talkin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
Hey kate; didn't you know? "Girls" never win when armwresting with boys!
Anyhow, not sure if you're serious. You seem to be a logical person, and not prone to going off into the illogical deep end. I'm pretty sure we're on the same team, yes?
BTW, I was just reading a recent article about genetic drift and genome variability within a cohort of so-called specific organisms. There's a lot of variation even within your own family, esp. if we go back, say, five or so generations. Are we then all different species? We can't rely just on that definition of the ability to successfully interbreed. The distinct and unique variations in chromosomal loci maps do not, in and of themselves, detach us from the greater flock, but technically, yes, your father was a "transitional", en-route from your grandfather and on to you. He may find that fascinating?
Statistically, we could (and perhaps should.. a great PhD thesis idea! I hereby claim it as mine, 09-14-09!) look at the differences between random genetic "noise" within a species' population, and which of those codons are on their way to a better home. You know; the ones with potential or actual "staying power" and the potential to change the "typical" hominid DNA genome. That would require a set of DNA genome maps going back, let's say, 5 or 10 or 20 generations, and then some careful watching as to which ones actually accomplish something, and which ones just fade away.
Additionally, there are several bits of ancient once-called "junk DNA" strings which we now think (or have found, in some cases...) to be activated by ancient triggers, old stimuli (like a charging polar bear, as I've experienced 3 times. Lucky lucky lucky...) Or diseases. Or climate changes. Or?
Some are, in fact, near-identical to ancient viral particle DNAs, and can then be statistically aged as to when they forced their way into the general human genome. That alone also dates us back hundreds of millions of years when we age-compare them to the latest, oft-mutated current viral strains.
The coupling of current DNA mapping and analysis methods, isotopic decay-rate aging (very accurate unless of course the ongoing and observable nuclear physics of the sun, as well as inside your local nuclear power plant aren't really real..), geological consistency and linking to separately aged physical events (volcanoes, meteors, etc.) and our ability to extract some DNA chunks from ice-suspended mamoths, reptiles, plants and sea life, has allowed for an entirenewlevel of accurate enlightenment in the field of "transitionals". Even "Missing Links", which have taken on a life of their own now!
Chistianity's lightweight theories and sputtering denials notwithstanding of course.
i'm sure i'm on your side... don't know what all those words mean together though!
yeah, boys always win in arm wrestling. betcha never had anyone forfeit here before!
K.
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are we having fun yet?
oh mmmman
all that scientific sweet talkin'
