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Old 09-17-2009, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,057,177 times
Reputation: 13985

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
IN GENERAL... if an atheist does not act on the immorality that is against what God has taught, they USUALLY support the immorality.
Quote:
-Sex before marriage
-Multiple sex partners
-Homosexuality
-Cohabitation
-Divorce
Not immoral. It is considered a sin because of the hang ups the religious have of all things to do with sex. Sex before marriage is sensible.

Nothing wrong with multiple partners, but best if they are not all at the same time.

Homosexuality is natural. Nothing immoral here. It is just religious bigotry that says that.

Co-habitation is also the sensible route...You can't know a person till you live with them awhile.

Divorce for good reason is not only sensible, it saves lives and peoples sanity

Quote:
-Drunkenness
I don't know about immoral, but it is stupid


Quote:
To the world this is ALL normal... to God this is not normal. Yet he knew that most people would rather be lovers of pleasure than lovers of light.
You actually think that these things are only about pleasure? Most are just common sense.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,903 posts, read 6,005,119 times
Reputation: 3533
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
Faith is required to believe in God. But faith in the God of the Bible is not blind faith as atheist claim. The faith that I have is based on evidence. Evidence that supports inspiration of the Bible. That what the Bible says is true, because it was inspired by God. Yet this evidence is rarely never talked about in the church and most Christians have no clue. Then when a Christian that actually knows about the evidence of the God of the Bible... it becomes a denial game to the atheist. They refuse to accept anything... just because they do not want to believe.

Atheist say they want evidence... but then you give it to them and they already have it in their mind that there is NO WAY... and they look for EVERY WAY to find a fault some how.
Souperstar34, the problem with the evidence that you present to atheists/agnostics is that it is experiental rather than empirical. While your experiences may hold valuable truth to you, they don't hold valuable objective truth. Objective truth is based on that wich can and has been empirically verified. Atheists/agnostics will accept claims based on empirical evidence. Experiental evidence isn't considered objective evidence by most atheists/agnostics. If you had evidence which empirically verified that a god existed then most unbelievers would accept the truth of such a claim. The problem is that concept of god isn't based on empirical evidence. A nonreligious example of this is the belief in alien abductions. There are many who believe that such a thing is real, although most people think it's false because those who claim that such a belief is true can't empirically prove it's true. Analogously, while religious people claim the belief in god is true, they also can't empirically prove that it is true, therefore it is rational to not accept the truth of such a claim.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:44 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 4,158,378 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
It only takes ONE sin go to hell. God only asks for ONE thing belief and people hate it. Despise it. Deny it. Hate others for it! God is so loving that all sins can be forgiven if a person BELIEVES and FOLLOWS Christ. It is a lifestyle change. Works do not get you into heaven... belief does. That is what God desires a sincere belief, but faith with our works is dead. How can people say they believe than do the opposite of what Christ says?
Yea, like I can just believe anything at will...
Whats that? God only wants me to believe. Then you claim I need to follow christ... which is it??
I need evidence to believe something. I am not some gullible guy who just accepts any claim, especially when that claim involves magic.

So in your own words, because I don't believe, I'm not better then Hitler.. better yet, hitler would be a better person then me because he believe.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:49 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 4,158,378 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Souperstar34, the problem with the evidence that you present to atheists/agnostics is that it is experiential rather than empirical. While your experiences may hold valuable truth to you, they don't hold valuable objective truth. Objective truth is based on that which can and has been empirically verified. Atheists/agnostics will accept claims based on empirical evidence. Experimental evidence isn't considered objective evidence by most atheists/agnostics. If you had evidence which empirically verified that a god existed then most unbelievers would accept the truth of such a claim. The problem is that concept of god isn't based on empirical evidence. A nonreligious example of this is the belief in alien abductions. There are many who believe that such a thing is real, although most people think it's false because those who claim that such a belief is true can't empirically prove it's true. Analogously, while religious people claim the belief in god is true, they also can't empirically prove that it is true, therefore it is rational to not accept the truth of such a claim.
Nicely said.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,903 posts, read 6,005,119 times
Reputation: 3533
It's interesting how alot of theists often claim that they have the moral high ground, but then say that without religion someone is an immoral hedonist. This seems to say more about the person claiming such nonsense. It seems more indicative that the person making such a claim is actually the one who's immoral and has no inner moral compass. Without religion they would just fall into depravity and moral decay. Most actually are moral people though and live their lives trying not to harm others. While many theists won't claim the nonsense that the OP advocates, the ones that do seem to be the ones that are actually immoral.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,712 posts, read 13,439,515 times
Reputation: 4317
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
IN GENERAL... if an atheist does not act on the immorality that is against what God has taught, they USUALLY support the immorality.

-Sex before marriage
-Multiple sex partners
-Homosexuality
-Cohabitation
-Divorce
-Drunkenness


To the world this is ALL normal... to God this is not normal. Yet he knew that most people would rather be lovers of pleasure than lovers of light.
No single raindrop feels like it's responsible for the flood, SouperStar...

Once you realize that your pathological ability to convict people without knowing them contributes to more of the problem than it solves you may just realize that it's your very condescending attitude which comprises a very large part of "the flood."
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:03 PM
 
Location: California
37,097 posts, read 42,098,467 times
Reputation: 34962
I had to click this link. Anything that starts off with "the REAL reason....someone else does/doesn't do something" is bound to be good for a few chuckles. This one didn't dissapoint me.

The focus on personal and social issues (sex, etc) has nothing to do with Jesus. Those things are about religion and control.

I also love the statement "they do not want to believe". How about "their brain won't allow them to believe something they have no proof of"? That's would make the statement true but would put the believer on the defense and question their own intelligence and thought process, which is why believers don't like it. Much better to say someone doesn't WANT to belive, that way they can tell themselves that person is just rebellous child while they, with their superior understand of everything and ability to follow "rules", are the good kid.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:50 AM
 
1,555 posts, read 1,976,115 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
He desires a true and sincere love. He did not create us as robots to automatically follow him, but rather he gave people the choice to follow Him. This choice allows a sincere bond between Him and mankind.
yeah and if you DON'T follow him and WORSHIP him and GLORIFY him, then you are punished. That sounds pretty petty and juvenile for a "God."
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:20 PM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,169 posts, read 17,617,596 times
Reputation: 64102
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLDanford View Post
yeah and if you DON'T follow him and WORSHIP him and GLORIFY him, then you are punished. That sounds pretty petty and juvenile for a "God."
You'll also never hear the end of it from his followers, as they chant, "You're going to hell!" That is more annoying than any god's wrath.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,301 posts, read 2,106,540 times
Reputation: 749
This atheism = immoral hedonism is getting a bit tiring. Hardly a week goes by that you don't hear some story about Christians in positions of authority molesting some little kids, yet it's the atheist who're so immoral.

That's okay, I suppose, because they're true believers in Christ. Jesus will save them from hell, while us "immoral" atheist burn forever. Nice going, God. And exactly why am I suppose to worship you again?

Evidence for Jesus? Okay, how about putting up or shutting up. Pray for Jesus or God to show himself to us non-believers in an unambiguous way, and we'll all believe. I shall patiently await for this to happen. Now you can stop lying about atheist not believing no matter what.

The OP is a perfect example of why it's pointless discussing anything with 83.01 percent of all believers. You have to waste most your time arguing against all the false assumptions and character slander before even getting to why you believe or not. It can be quite humorous at times to hear people tell me why I believe what I do, as they apparently know me better than me.

Wait, I just had an amazing revelation! All Christians are really atheist in denial. It is the truth! It doesn't matter what anyone else says. Maybe if I say it enough times and am really loud and obnoxious enough about it, it'll make it even more true!

See how silly that is? That's exactly what you true believers sound like to us.
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