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Why are we still waiting for someone from your side to test the figurines from El Toro mountain? What's it been? About 60 years now. And your complaining about a couple of years?
Why test crap tourista figurines?
And the problem with your dead wood floating theory, is the fact that this dead wood, was found in a cave that was 13,000 feet above the earths surface. Now I might not have a problem with your theory, but your sure going to have one. And right now, from where I'm standing, your the one taking in water. LOL
Not if your global flood happened as you say. In that case, there'd be all sorts of wood. So if you believe the global flood happened, despite that you haven't clarified how no-one else on the planet noticed it, you'd also have to agree that wood (which floats, BTW) would be at whatever elevation the flood waters were at. Including 13 - 14,000 feet up.
Gottcha good this time; no wriggle room!
Oh, and could you tell me the last time you saw a logjam 13,000 feet about the earth? Maybe National Geographic has a picture of one, right next to their fake fossil evidence. LOL
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Already asked and already answered. If your Ark floated up there, why do you reject that other floating flotsam would also be there? I provided a picture. Selective floatation theories? Godly log sorting? Wooden denialism? DeFloatationism as science? God MAGICALLY made 'em all petrified and then they all sank (but where, then, are they all now, collected in an easily seen mono-layer?)
You guys tell us that all the clams we find at 20,000 feet on mountain tops got there because of the fantasy Noahatic flood. That they floated up there (they don't float, BTW..) and established mussel and clam colonies all in a matter of a few months, and then died later, sorta instantly burying and then auto-fossilizing themselves. (Oddly, the fossil bivalve species found imbedded in ancient oceanic floors that have been subsequently upthrust are not represented in any living form today. They're all extinct species isotopically dated to millions of years ago...) Hmmm... They all conveniently died right after your flood huh? It's all such a CUTE story, falling apart as it does, at every turn...)
So... Now you're changing your story? Nothing but Arkian stuff would float? All the other wood junk and dead whales and fish sank, temporarily. Of course! Change the facts to fit the fantasy. I forgot.
BTW, what about those videos of the howling mountaintop winds and weather. One of those was at only 6000 feet!
Imagine; old Noah trying to endure such weather for months as he waited for the raging waters to recede and the plant life to regenerate (hah!), and also tend to 600M (a conservative count) starving and dehydrated animals, with only salt water to drink...
I also note that the explorers in those videos are all dressed in the latest Marmot Mountain Works double down-filled, Gore-Tex™ layered clothing. I'll just bet Noah wasn't so well equipped.
Finally, I'll remind you that you're conveniently forgetting (you really oughta have that problem looked at...) that in fact I did ask, as a scientist, for a tiny sample of those tourista figurines, but the local Acambara tourista office won't hear of it. Of course not. What DO they have to hide I wonder?
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I agree with you, Mystic, it's truly amazing, and I'm still here (and possibly the others... purely for the "yuk-it-up" entertainment value. Simple things, right? There's nothing to going to be gained, and our one defensive guy continues, quite humorously at this point, to flog his dead points. Relentlessly. Trouble is, that long-dead horse is starting to smell jist a bit....
[quote=rifleman;11871565]A thoughtful and careful read of this shows that the investigators found many contradictions, but also came to this final but conservative conclusion:
"This expedition yielded compelling new evidence to suggest that..."
No such thing as an absolute here, just "compelling new evidence". Such as burned rocks (a recent brush fire?) and hollowed-out caves (that had, in fact, been done by recent excavators).
Such is the approach, and the stuff of, biblical evidence seekers. They either have no inkling of how a valid and defensible study is done (cross-corroboration, photographic evidence, measurements, archeological surveys, cross-references, isotopic dating surveys, satellite analysis, etc. etc.) or... more sinfully....
They know full-well the vast errors in their methods, but hope or know that their scientifically illiterate audience won't catch on. The donations will continue to arrive in the mail, and all is well!
But then also, we get to catch them up in their silly error-filled results. What fun!
But even so, when pseudo-researchers do make careful conservative statements such as "compelling new evidence suggests" , in the eyes of the stubbornly defensive and devout, this magically transforms into:
"Proof that the bible is Inerrant!"
I swear rifleman, I believe you work very hard at your denails. A recent brush fire, would not explain how the top of that mountain is burnt black, and remains black year after year. The rocks look like coal, yet when they are broken, they were actually granite. Yet I suppose if you really don't want to believe, any excuse will do.
And Saudi archaeologists excavated the caves, they did not construct the caves, they excavated them, because of the historical evidence found in them. The only errors I see here, are the one's you have created yourself.
Already asked and already answered. If your Ark floated up there, why do you reject that other floating flotsam would also be there? I provided a picture. Selective floatation theories? Godly log sorting? Wooden denialism? DeFloatationism as science? God MAGICALLY made 'em all petrified and then they all sank (but where, then, are they all now, collected in an easily seen mono-layer?)
You guys tell us that all the clams we find at 20,000 feet on mountain tops got there because of the fantasy Noahatic flood. That they floated up there (they don't float, BTW..) and established mussel and clam colonies all in a matter of a few months, and then died later, sorta instantly burying and then auto-fossilizing themselves. (Oddly, the fossil bivalve species found imbedded in ancient oceanic floors that have been subsequently upthrust are not represented in any living form today. They're all extinct species isotopically dated to millions of years ago...) Hmmm... They all conveniently died right after your flood huh? It's all such a CUTE story, falling apart as it does, at every turn...)
So... Now you're changing your story? Nothing but Arkian stuff would float? All the other wood junk and dead whales and fish sank, temporarily. Of course! Change the facts to fit the fantasy. I forgot.
BTW, what about those videos of the howling mountaintop winds and weather. One of those was at only 6000 feet!
Imagine; old Noah trying to endure such weather for months as he waited for the raging waters to recede and the plant life to regenerate (hah!), and also tend to 600M (a conservative count) starving and dehydrated animals, with only salt water to drink...
I also note that the explorers in those videos are all dressed in the latest Marmot Mountain Works double down-filled, Gore-Tex™ layered clothing. I'll just bet Noah wasn't so well equipped.
Finally, I'll remind you that you're conveniently forgetting (you really oughta have that problem looked at...) that in fact I did ask, as a scientist, for a tiny sample of those tourista figurines, but the local Acambara tourista office won't hear of it. Of course not. What DO they have to hide I wonder?
____________________________________________
I agree with you, Mystic, it's truly amazing, and I'm still here (and possibly the others... purely for the "yuk-it-up" entertainment value. Simple things, right? There's nothing to going to be gained, and our one defensive guy continues, quite humorously at this point, to flog his dead points. Relentlessly. Trouble is, that long-dead horse is starting to smell jist a bit....
As someone once said:
"There's No Horse Too Dead To Keep Flogging!"
rifleman, do you really believe weather conditions are the same today, as they were thousands of years ago?
And if the Ark of Noah was a dead horse, they would not of found a large petrified wooden structure 13,000 feet high up on the very Mountain where God said the Ark landed. No matter how much you want the Ark story to go away, the truth will come out. And the Ark will be found. God had Noah put pitch on the inside, and on the outside of the Ark. It should be obvious, that if this was just a makebelieve story, such a detail would never of been spoken. From the very beginning, God was preparing to preserve the Ark till the end of time.
I believe, when man is fully conviniced of his intellectual superiority, when he fully conviniced that he alone knows the truth, and that the God of the Bible, is just one of so many myths that foolish men believe in. Well, I believe at that time, God will choose to reveal the foolishness of the worldly wise. And all of their theories that oppose the Biblical account, should collapse in one day. Yet, I also believe, that once the Ark is revealed, those who have denied it's reality. Will then argue that the Biblical account had nothing to do with the Arks existance. And they will look on the Ark as a historical oddity. And they will also refuse to link the Ark to God's judgement. Because once you start to deny Biblical truth, you will just find a new way to continue to delude yourself, into a greater denial. If God fully reveals the Ark to the world, it will simply be God raising the bar, which will incourage non believers, to deny God's truth all the more.
rifleman, do you really believe weather conditions are the same today, as they were thousands of years ago?
Of course they were
It was warm enough, and wet enough that people could grow crops, raise animals, and survive. It wouldn't be that much different than conditions today. Your "factual" paintings depicting dinosaurs going aboard the big boat seem to be in moderate weather, no ice age, no temperature extremes (remember them dinosaurs are reptiles, and cold blooded ), had to moderate enough for trees to grow (wood to build the big boat ).
It was warm enough, and wet enough that people could grow crops, raise animals, and survive. It wouldn't be that much different than conditions today. Your "factual" paintings depicting dinosaurs going aboard the big boat seem to be in moderate weather, no ice age, no temperature extremes (remember them dinosaurs are reptiles, and cold blooded ), had to moderate enough for trees to grow (wood to build the big boat ).
The flood would of dramatically changed the weather patterns, your arguement was the mountain was covered in ice. Right after the flood, I don't believe that was the case. And there is no question that God was fully in control of the events, because the Bible tells us, it was God Himself who sealed the Arks door.
Scientific analysis of the structure indicated it to be petrified wood. A publication titled "NEW Evidence in the Search for Noah's Ark" will be released some time in the future, and more details of the discovery will be found there. The publlication, will be edited by one of Turkeys leading archaeologist, professor Oktay Bellis, director of Institute of Eurasian Archaeology, University of Istanbul. Dial-A-Prayer - Noah's Ark scale model
I'm impressed. I don't know how you manage to come up with such amazing websites. The model of the Ark is stunning. I assume the toy train set and the house in front of the model are to help better visualize how large the Ark must've been, even though I'm not sure the scale is close. The house in front looks pretty dinky.
The ramp looks like it might be a bit too short. It's hard to guess how the animals would manage to get up to it. If the ramp were long enough to reach the ground, then there'd be no problem for the animals to climb up it, but how would you manage to close it? It'd be too long for the doorway. Perhaps there was a detached ramp built next to the Ark with the door dropped down across the detached ramp? Well, that'd allow the door way to be closed. Problem is when the Ark finally landed, there'd be no detached ramp available. Everyone and everything would have no way to get off the Ark.
And I wonder, if the Ark had three decks, how did Noah manage to get the animals down to those two lower decks? If there wer openings between the decks with ramps built inside, that might work, but it would waste valuable space. Remember, this was a mission to preserve pairs of all the animals in the world.
If the model of the Ark depicts how it actually looked, then the row of windows at the top would work out well to ventilate the upper deck. I'm not sure about the two lower deck though. Regardless, considering it rained for 40 days and 40 nights, those windows would have to be closed the entire time to keep the rain out from flooding the interior of the Ark. Sure, later on, when the rain stopped, the vents could be opened, but during the 40-day rain, it'd get pretty ripe smelling inside. In fact, the smell of ammonia from all the urine could reach high levels stinging the eyes and very hard to breathe. The powerful stench from the decks below is going to rise up to the upper deck. It could kill potentially kill you. And what would you do with all that wet sloppy poo? You can't exactly open the door to dump it out for at least 40 days and 40 nights.
Okay, enough of that, let's scroll down the Dial-A-Prayer page to where it says "Unverified Noah's Ark News". This News is about the 2007 Chinese-Turkish team. The writer of Dial-A-Prayer states: "Be aware that this story could be a hoax."
Now let's go back to the top of the Dial-A-Prayer page. There's a link to "The Chapel of Marlboro" in Hartsville Ohio. This is where the Ark model (in the photo) is located. Just above it you'll find "Noah's Ark News" and a link to TVNZ news website. The article dated March 13, 2008, is about a New Zealand firm, Global Intelligence Solutions, who decided to help determine if something is buried under the ice on Mt. Ararat. But there's something else mentioned in that article: a U.S. team believes satellite images show a 300 meter long ship is buried under the ice. Noah's Ark hunt gets help from New Zealand firm | TECHNOLOGY News
Okay, I tool the liberty to look at another website called "Genesis Files". They have a page with some images that look pretty much the same as the photo of the Ark model on display at The Chapel in Marlboro in Hartville, Ohio. Scroll down the page until you reach "Size of Noah's Ark". What you'll find are the length, width and height of the Ark based on what's written in the Bible. It shows that the length of the Ark is about 133 to 157 meters long. (436 to 515 feet long) But yet both the Dial-A-Prayer website and the TVNZ news article say that a U.S. team believe it's 300 meters long (984 feet long)! That's twice as long as the Biblical account! Genesis Files
Now, take another good look at the photo of the model and the Genesis Files images (especially the dimensions part). Do you really think pairs of every animal, bird, etc., would fit in there, even with three levels? Take this into account: go back and read the Biblical account of the Ark. It wasn't just a pair of each kind of animal. 7 pairs of clean animals were taken aboard. It was the unclean animals that were only taken in pairs. In effect, there's even more than just a pair of every kind of animal. The number starts to become pretty staggering! Now think about the dinosaurs. Evidently, many of them must've been considered a clean, especially if there were stegosaurs wandering around Cambodia as recent as 600-900 years ago where people saw them. So there would have been a huge number of dinos on board as well. Looking at the general size of the Ark, do you really think ALL those animals, including dinosaurs, would be able to fit into it?
I'm not saying you should just toss the story of Noah's Ark in the trash. There's a moral to the story. Too many people are making too many claims that the Ark is here, the Ark is there, no, it's somewhere else, it's broken in two pieces, no, it's in four pieces, parts are hidden in caves, it's submerged in a lake, it's buried under ice, part of it is sticking out on a ledge, it's laying on it's side, etc. Not one of these tales has ever been conclusively proven. If it really is there, then someone would have reached it by now. There would be thousands of crystal clear photos and videos of it. All that is shown are blurred photos and videos of dark shapes. It may be that people are only chasing after imaginary shadows.
Yeah, thats pretty much what I expected to hear from you.
Yep, facts and reality, common sense, reason, no fairy tales from me.
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Hit it again! It's not dead yet!
), had to moderate enough for trees to grow (wood to build the big boat 
Yep, facts and reality, common sense, reason, no fairy tales from me. 